Was my dd being unreasonable?

[TheBFGisme1234]

My dd, in year 8, was in a lesson at school today when a boy asked to refill his water bottle, to which the teacher replied- "No, that is a lunch time activity". However, five minutes later the same teacher, while teaching, was booking his holiday and ordering furniture. My dd realized this and questioned him as to why it was fair that he is allowed to book holidays but they are not allowed to fill up their water, both of which are lunchtime activities. The teacher then shouted at her and told her she embarrassed him and asked to see her after class.
My dd promptly burst into tears as she is normally impeccably behaved and in her entire school career has only been in trouble once, the whole class went silent. After class the teacher told her what she had said was wrong and cheeky, but that he would let it go this time as it is completely abnormal behaviour for her. On the one hand I agree with her teacher that she was being cheeky in pointing this out, but then again I see her point. So was my dd being unreasonable? Is there any way she could have pointed this out without being "cheeky"?

[redexpat]

hackmum takes it further than I would have, but yy to one rule for children and another for adults.

[Wideopenspace]

OP - has this version of events been confirmed by anyone else? Head of Y8 here, and I find often the child's perception of a situation is very much that - their perception.

[mileend2bermondsey]

Take the adult vs children element out of it.
Would you call your boss out on being a hypocrite in the middle of an office full of of colleauges and expect no reprocussions?

[soapboxqueen]

It's not about respecting 'elders'. It's about showing respect for a person in authority. If you have issues with that, there are channels to go through. It really isn't a hard concept.

I'm assuming all these people saying she was right would be fine mouthing off at a police officer too and get all cross when it back fired.

[claraschu]

Well done dd. The teacher could have won her (and the whole class's) undying respect by acknowledging that your dd was making a valid point.

[mileend2bermondsey]

The teacher could have won her (and the whole class's) undying respect by acknowledging that your dd was making a valid point
He wouldn't have won their 'undying respect' he would have let the whole class know its acceptable to shout out and make sarcastic comments to someone in a postion of authority.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Not sure if anyone has condoned the teacher shopping in the lesson? The teachers on here have as far as I can see said that she should talk to the HoD about it. Because we know it would be unacceptable.

Disclosure to an appropriate adult. A bit like reporting sexual abuse, if we are making that comparison.

[TheBFGisme1234]

mile
She didn't shout out, she waited with her hand up for at least a minute then coughed a little to get his attention.
She didn't want to go to the head of year as she didn't want the teacher to get into trouble as she likes him as a person, but admits he isn't the best teacher. Others on her table also noticed the teacher's browsing, yet they were all stereotypical troublemakers who would have got into more trouble than my dd purely because of previous incidents that may make the teacher presume they were deliberately being cheeky rather than raising a valid point.

[Jengnr]

If I had a daughter who was prepared to speak up and challenge authority I'd be proud of her. Who cares that it wasn't her battle, that's even more reason to be proud of her. She wasn't rude, she was absolutely right.

Respect has to be earned, good teachers know this and behave accordingly. This one didn't and it bit him.

[RabbitSaysWoof]

Oh it was the mouthy kids on her table she was showing off for.
I think you came across better when you were asking if she was BU, now you are desperately defending her behaviour.

[mileend2bermondsey]

She didn't shout out, she waited with her hand up for at least a minute then coughed a little to get his attention

Oh so she put her hand up and waited to make her sarcastic rhetorical question? Okay.
I find it interesting that you have the exact play-by-play on what happened right down to the coughs and timing.

Surely the other classmates whom she was trying to 'defend' would have had their questions about the work answered more quickly if your DD wasn't wasting lesson time making sarky comments.

[ilovesooty]

The way she chose to handle it sounds less defensible the more you post.

[Wideopenspace]

What is a stereotypical troublemaker please?

And I repeat, has anyone other than your daughter confirmed this series of events?

[TheFallenMadonna]

Some of these comments about the OP's DD are quite unpleasant. And unnecessary, even of you think she was BU in this instance.

OP, I think you should encourage her to deal with this situation in the way which is most likely to be effective, ie reporting. Given her reaction, smart comments, and it was a smart comment, however strongly she felt the injustice, are not right for her.

[BeetlebumShesAGun]

Fucking hell the vilification of a 12/13 year old girl on here terrifies me. I hope to god none of you calling this child (because that's what she is, a child who has not yet developed all the societal know-how and intelligence to think of "report quietly to the head") names are not teachers.

I can imagine she did embarrass the teacher and in hindsight she probably realises it wasn't a great idea, but he definitely over - reacted, probably because he realised she was right.

I agree with hackmum, although she uses an extreme example. Look at the state of the country. If everyone is just taught to roll over because someone is in authority, it's no wonder people are starving and dying whilst those in power help themselves to all they can.

[Iggi999]

You would report a one-off episode of Internet browsing? You can't report the teacher for not allowing the other child out with the water bottle as that's very likely to be the school rule. If the teacher has form for not being focussed on their class, then go ahead, but can no one really imagine a circumstance that would lead to an employer wasting a bit of the company time in this way? Should he be sacked?

[QueenofallIsee]

I actually think that some of our current social problems are a consequence of too much authority being removed from traditional authority figues and too little consequence being felt by our youth.

[TheFallenMadonna]

If it were reported to me, I'd have a word to see what they said, and depending on that, maybe later on do a couple of brief drop ins. I wouldn't go straight to capability, no

It's not OK though.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Full agree Madonna. Some are beyond unpleasant. It's one thing being a nest of vipers to each other, we're big girls/boys but I certainly draw the line at calling innocent children who are not on the thread to defend themselves. Not only that but any critique of children. The parents and the parents alone do it. Yes Op did ask was her dd being unreasonable but those saying yes could have been more constructive,
I think it's fantastic that she has a strong sense of fairness and morales and had the strength to speak out. I just hope after her experience that it doesn't put her off because it is an excellent quality that sadly not everyone has.

[TheBFGisme1234]

Thank you for the replies, both those supporting my dd's actions and condeming them. She is on the table of troublemakers for crowd control which the teacher told me when I inquired about the seating plan at Parent's Evening. Those saying she is a troublemaker, she gets top marks in every exam and the highest effort grades on every report; this was an out of character, one off event.

[Wideopenspace]

The teacher said she was on a table 'for crowd control'??

Blimey.


There are issues at this school if that is accurate.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Your dd sounds lovely, op. You should be very proud of her.
Fiesty head strong determind observant.. Yes
Cheeky and trouble maker.. No, well not in my book.
What the hell was the teAcher doing looking on laptops in any case, when he was supposed to be teaching children.
I hate the do as I say, Not do as I do attitude of some adults.

[ilovesooty]

I agree with TheFallenMadonna

There's no need to be unpleasant about the child but I still think she made an error of judgement in the way she dealt with this and I think she'd be best helped by you exploring this with her.

[Lovelydiscusfish]

I'm sure your dd thought she was doing the right thing, but no, I don't think it's appropriate for a student to question a teacher's behaviour in front of the class like that. As loads of people have said, teachers don't have to follow the same rules as students. In fact, there's not necessarily a "rule" written down anywhere by the school to tell him not to go on personal web sites during class.

Of course, your dd is right in that it's not exactly best practice. But, although I do believe in student voice, and fostering a culture of openness, I'm not sure a culture of students openly challenging their teacher's decisions in public forum is necessarily conducive to a constructive classroom. Not going to help with the teacher shortage, either, if it really takes hold!

I think if anyone reports the teacher, the worst that will happen to him is that his head of department or someone will have a word and ask him not to go on holiday websites in front of the class in future. I doubt his job will be at risk.