To put dd 7m into nursery so I can go to the gym?

[Vijac]

I've just started putting her in for an hour two times a week. The first sessions were ok but today at her 4th session her face just crumpled when I said goodbye which wrenched my heart :(. She obviously realised I was leaving her. Am I mean putting her in just so I can go the gym. I just want to get fit and lose some weight finally. Will I damage her according to attachment parenting? Thanks.

You're all very kind but the reality is that I'm not a great parent, like most people I'm a good enough parent. And good enough really is good enough - passive aggressive comments on how you wouldn't do XYZ knowing perfectly well it will make some other parents feel like they've failed are grim. Especially people are raised perfectly normal well-balanced children. And if sometimes we as parents have to do things we might not feel are in our childs best interests then in my experience we try to minimise the downsides as much as we can and often will change things until they work better for our child.

Frankly the children at risk of real damage aren't the ones whose parents are on a parenting forum stressing about whether they are being unreasonable about going to the gym twice a week - so really there's no need for the slightly superior tone of some posters - I find it highly unlikely that I could slide a piece of paper between the psychological or emotional states of your relative children. What you're doing isn't making that big of a difference but if you and/or your child is happier as a result - good for you.

But fear not, DS is just grand - even if it never gets any better he is good enough for me just as he is. (Though he would object to being called "little" as he's now 9!)

It is the sanctimoniousness (word?) that I most object to - I practice "attachment" parenting but on the whole tend to call it "parenting" - seems a better description to me.

I think you mean Steve Biddulph Meerka some of his theories on raising boys have no merit - eg there is no evidence for a testosterone surge in boys around 5 (I think he says) though I haven't looked into the daycare one specifically.

Singsong what about mothers who actually are unable to cope with being at home full time? Some very much enjoy working and are better mothers for it. What about those with depression for whom working helps?

Ah, that is precisely the problem: when people believe there is only one way of "getting it right." The details of care are far less important than the overall quality of the relationship. As Kew eloquently wrote, forming a secure attachment is essential in the early months and years but insecure attachment arises from extreme circumstances, such as neglectful institutions. A loving, engaged parent who makes use of high quality childcare is not in any danger of causing attachment problems.

There are so many ways of "getting it right." The parents' work status, and indeed their social lives, have very little to do with it IMO.

IN fact a massive study in Norway in 2013 showed that children with up to 40 hours per week in institutional (ie nursery) care showed fewer externalised problems (eg agression) that those with 100% care at home in the age range 18-36 months (they didn't test lower than this). And those with hours even as high as 60 hours per week in nursery didn;t show a statistically significant increase in externalised behaviour.

The real thing to learn is that Norway has very high quality state supervised nursery care vs the very patchy quality of nursery care in the US where most of the studies showing increased aggression have been done.

What we can do is try harder to push for higher standards of nursery care rather than accept govt attempts to decrease the quality eg reducing adult to baby ratios to 1:6. DS's orphanage had a ratio of 1:6!!!! Thats not exactly a gold standard despite it being pretty good as orphanages in poor countries go.

Yes, Steve Biddulph it was. Huh, sounds like not everything in the book is backed up by evidence then. S'pose it's a matter of finding out what's considered reliable and what isn't.

cross post - oh dear, if there's one area in society where effort and money should be poured, it's in the areas for children. 1 in 6 does not sound good :(

Yeah, Steve Biddulph is a bit of a one for coming out with things that sound really plausible but then turn out to have no source other than "Steve Biddulph thinks so".

(see also: Oliver James, who drives me batshit - the only time I've ever found myself walking along actually shaking my fist and muttering in rage listening to something was when he was on Woman's Hour claiming that no toddler who got 24/7 one to one attention would ever misbehave....)

And yes, entirely agree that there are lots of ways of "getting it right", as long as there's love and respect and joy going on. My own parents both worked outside the home and I think I had a fantastic childhood, actually - my parents and siblings and I still have a great relationship.

I asked the same question about dads up thread Writerwannabe83 and didn't get an answer.

And of course there is blatant sexism through this topic. Do you think there are hoards of bunfighting dads on Dadsnet or NetDads (disclaimer: possibly not a real internet forum...) judging each other because a number of them choose to go out and retain a social life after their kids? Absofuckley not! I doubt most fathers give this kind of shit headspace frankly.

Only mothers have to sacrifice and self-flagellate themselves at the alter of motherhood! Didn't you get the memo? Pretty sure it was printed on the inside of the cover of Dr. Sears

I mentioned dads ages ago and was also ignored

When my DS was 3 months old my DH went abroad for 5 days on a trip.

Can you imagine the complete uproar if I'd decided to do that?

I fear that keep and sing would have a heart attack

I went on a hen weekend to Miami when DS was 5 months old and it was glorious

4 wonderful days shopping, tanning and dancing on bars. Turns out that waking up with rock hard norks because you forgot to pump after you staggered in at 5am is possibly the most horrendous pain when you combine it with a brain trying to escape through your eyes though. The only downside.

Happy days they were - I don't think DS1 was particularly harmed by my absence and DH enjoyed the chance to be on his own with him. Worked a treat.

But genuinely there wouldn't be uproar Writer - I doubt anyone who cares for you and loves you would make you feel guilty for going and enjoying some time away.

It's only internet forums and threads like this where any uproar happens. In real life, nobody gives a shit.

I luffs Kew. Very sensible words there.

Completely agree furry - in real life nobody is judgemental.

Due to my current shift patterns it means that on one occasion each week I go 24 hours without seeing DS and on another occasion each week I don't see him for 48 hours.

I do miss him but between his dad and our fantastic childminder I know DS is being looked after to a perfectly good standard and he probably barely realises I'm 'missing' let alone feel neglected. I'm pretty confident that being left in the hands of his dad isn't damaging him.

Not sure why people are still saying that they mentioned dads in this thread and were ignored. I have replied to those that were directed at me every time to state that my dh is very much a part of my parenting equation and that we take equal responsibility for the care of our children.
In fact, when dd1 didn't go to nursery it was dh who stayed at home to look after her as I had more earning potential.

Fantastic post Kew

Singsong. ..The thing is I fundamentally disagree with your belief that children are better off with a parent than in other forms of care...I think they need to be loved and cared for by their parent. ..but I actually think they BENEFIT from childcare in other settings

Humans evolved to share care of children between a well known adult group

Children benefit from having close relationship ships with other children and adults as they have in a good childcare setting

Both my children went to a childminder from 5 months old part time. ...they absolutely love it, they love their childminder they love seeing me at the end of the day and I love seeing how happy they are there

I really love them but I alao really really love my job which is not just about money for me. ..its my heart and passion

You are not thinking outside your own personal feelings enough ..just because you want to spend all your time with small hildren that doesn't make it the only and best way to parent a small child

sing - if your husband said that every week he wanted to meet his friend down the pub on a Tuesday night and go and watch the football every Saturday afternoon, would that be a problem?

I am genuinely confused as to how someone can say they don't understand why anyone would choose to be away from their child when it isn't necessary. Are social lives really not allowed? I'm baffled.

The idea that parents should abandon their lives once they have children is slightly insane.

My son is not the most important thing in my life. My family as a whole is. Having happy, healthy parents is just as important as happy, healthy children and if that means the parents taking some time off, that is, of course, perfectly fine.

If anyone on this thread was feeling awful for working (in any form) instead of undertaking full-time childcare, this is a nice read.

Writer- if he wanted to go every week I'd be a bit cheesed off to be honest, but yes of course he could go out with his friend as I go out with mine. We just don't use childcare to do it.

To be honest he's not really the off to the pub sort. He, like me, prefers his evenings in. Like I said, we've been there and done that. Maybe if we'd had our children in our early 20s we'd feel differently but we both have the same view that these are our family years. We're enjoying every moment of them.

But regardless of using childcare you said in a previous post that you can't understand why anyone would choose to be away from their child any longer than necessary (or words to that affect).

Isn't you or your DH going out to visit a friend classed as unnecessarily being away from your children?

Or do you only see friends when your children are asleep so you wouldn't be spending time with them anyway?

It's called learning resilience - them , but you also. You'll be a far better mum feeling fitter and they will realise there is life without you before they become namby pamby. Teachers will thank you that they cope without mum!