Is this MIL's finest hour?

[namechangeorimfucked]

I've had to name change because my family members know my name on here and if they knew what she was doing all hell would break loose..

MIL is currently on her way to the hospital to visit a relative (her niece). Niece has just this morning welcomed her first baby after a very traumatic labour that has lasted days. A failed induction and many hours later, she has had an EMCS and both are apparently doing well. MIL knows about all this because her SIL has been giving her updates as she receives them from her DD and her partner. She has relayed said details to me and DH.

MIL gets on ok with her SIL but does not like her niece, she has been very judgmental all through her pg, both behind her back and to her face. As a result of this, niece and MIL fell out at a family gathering about 3 months ago.

MIL received a message from her SIL saying that the baby is here but they do not want visitors til visiting time tonight. Despite being told this, MIL is going to the hospital to see the baby... Her SIL is not even attempting to go yet and its her GC.

Niece lives in another county, MIL is on her way there now, NHS staff badge around her neck, to pop in and see the baby. She accused the niece and of being 'silly' and once she gets there she will be happy to have a visitor. She also said that she has to go now because she is busy later in the week and 'can't be expected to wait for them'

The Niece's DP is on facebook now letting everyone know things are ok. Do me and DH tell him she is coming?

We explained to her that she will not be let in if they don't want to see her and she said she 'knows her way around' and is 'practically staff'. She is expecting to see the baby before her own SIL...this is going to cause a shitstorm so big it will consume us all.

A grandparent with a long established and significant relationship with their grandchildren (think delivering care on a regular basis) may be able to take legal action and win a right to contact if it is deemed to be in the child's best interest to continue this but it's incredibly rare. There is no general right for grandparents to see grandchildren at all.

Lurking what a bitch. Some MiL's are bastards. Shera

DH thinks we should at least cut down contact to the tinyest amount, I think we should try and be normal around her, because I think the fallout and bad feeling around her niece and SIL is what caused her to start trouble with them.

I think you should let your dh lead on this, it is his mum, he knows her. Dont pussyfoot around just because you are scared of what she will do. Think long term, you will be more worried and scared of what she will do and say, after she has been building a dysfunctional relationship with your children for years. She will build trust with them, they wont see through her , and she may continue her manipulation and control through them. Why would you let them go through that? They may not be as strong as your husband!

I am going to go against the grain here and say;

• I think the whole NC thing on Mumsnet is a bit out of control, its generally not the best answer ( although sometimes its the only answer and I say that as someone who had to go NC with an alcoholic father )

• This is your DH's mother. She sounds very difficult alright but talking about refusing to allow her to see her grandchild before its even born, sounds cruel.

• Isn't it better to see how it plays out. When she misbehaves don't answer her calls, tell her you are heading out the door when she calls, don't answer the doorbell. These actions should spur her to consider her future actions.

• If it doesn't you have an issue and then maybe going NC is the best course of action

"She will build trust with them, they wont see through her , and she may continue her manipulation and control through them. Why would you let them go through that? They may not be as strong as your husband!"

This is definitely a thing, I can vouch for this.

Some toxic/narcissistic parents will engage a hearts and minds campaign with your children when they are teens, even leading them intentionally into harm's way.

Mine had complicated shall we say "personality disorders" which among other things had led to me being abandoned as a baby. Reunited as a teen, everything seemed well but there wasn't much of a relationship, years go on and I start a family, and unbeknownst to me DM and DF planned for years to befriend my teenage DDs and "lead" them into the worst kind of harm imaginable, all apparently to "make me as bad a parent as them" or redress the balance for me not being impressed that you know, I was abandoned as a bloody baby. I was then expected, after them actually wanting to ruin my DDs lives, to accept that, to keep playing happy families with them.

Just an absolute, horrible nightmare. If you think something is wrong, do NOT allow toxic/narcissistic grandparents near your children, do NOT ignore your instincts.

I agree to a certain extent merry but I suspect there is a whole a back story to this.

I am minimal contact with mine.
Meals out only as the person I am low contact with always behaves appropriately if others are about.
I don't discuss anything personal, only general stuff that cant be used against me.
It was a gradual disengaging.

Merry - it is not that they will not allow mil to see their baby, they dont want her barge in on maternity ward when she is trying to recover from giving birth.

Merry - it is not that they will not allow mil to see their baby, they dont want her barge in on maternity ward when she is trying to recover from giving birth.

Yes, and they don't trust her to wait until visiting hours (so she might interrupt a bf support worker or paediatrician, or midwife changing dressings).

My MIL is lovely in nearly all ways but she cannot keep a secret. So we don't tell her sensitive things any more. She created those boundaries herself.

This MIL is not respecting the boundaries that state the parents have time alone shortly after the birth of their baby.
Her needs come before anyone else because she is toxic.

She was prepared to misuse her NHS pass to manipulate access to her niece who was recovering from major surgery.
This is not normal behaviour !

I also see where you're coming from, Merry.

The thing is, this bit:

These actions should spur her to consider her future actions.

If I've read the OPs posts correctly, the actions she's already had from Niece is that Niece stopped talking to her months ago. The future actions this caused was her to drive two hours when she was specifically asked not to, and to have a massive tantrum in the hospital where Niece was recovering from surgery.

To my mind, yes, it might be that not answering the door will solve the problems, and maybe she'll be reasonable, but she has form for really, really not being reasonable. I think it's fair for the OP and her husband to protect themselves, particularly at a time when OP is likely to be vulnerable, from it happening to them.

merry - its her DH who has suggested going NC. This is a big deal as it takes a long time for people to see narc behaviour. She didn't even like the DN, and had a big argument with her - yet despite being told not to go she went anyway. Going NC isn't easy - the poisonous one still keeps feeding others lies, and it sounds like they would already be NC if it wasn't for FIL.
I'd be inclined to ask DH to have the discussion based on what are FiL's expectations as you really don't want her near. She of course will continue to manipulate everyone around her. Also go on Stately Homes

Ah - OP it was another poster on the stately homes thread that I quoted from earlier, I saved it to remind me to be careful in my dealing with my narc mother - we are very min contact but live quite far away - maybe you should think about moving :-)

Whatever you do will never be right.

I don't think that there is any point at all in trying to meet her halfway.

If it isn't all completely on her terms she will be creating a drama/bad mouthing you.

So imo, you might as well do things all your way and see her as little as possible.

It will be your fault, so if she is going to moan about you, there might as well be minimal effort on your part!

"DH thinks we should at least cut down contact to the tinyest amount, I think we should try and be normal around her, because I think the fallout and bad feeling around her niece and SIL is what caused her to start trouble with them."

Honestly, I know people with close relatives just like this, and they try to appease them too. It doesn't work! It just makes things worse because they realise they can be in control and have everyone walking on eggshells/living in fear. But the people I know who are dealing with this, try to keep the mad person on side because they actually love them/want to continue a family relationship with them. You don't, and nor does your husband, so why bother? Best thing to do is just stop feeding the beast. Or just take her on holiday to Petra

Elephant

^^I think you should respect his wishes. You still seem to think you can tiptoe round her and it will all be OK (a normal reaction if you are not used to narcassists). It won't.

" Thats exactly the word i meant to use 'braying' like donkeys."

but Nifoules, you said 'bray for blood' how could a donkey 'bray for blood' they are gentle vegetarians.
A case of mixed metaphors or confused cliches I think.

Not sure I would like to be around to see what could possibly have caused donkeys to bray for blood!

Rational people do not misuse their professional credentials to try and force their way into a place where they are not welcome, to see a person that they do not like or respect. Take a step back for a moment and really think about the logic of this. WHY would you go out of your way to spend tim

Even MIL supposed excuse for why she had to visit immediately defies rationality. She had to visit now because otherwise, her schedule meant she couldnt until early next week. Since DN didnt want any visitors now, or many for several days, every sensible person would think how lovely that everyone's needs matched up like that. Absolutely perfect!

But MIL? No. Her brain immediately went into battle mode. She must invade the castle!

Did her fake suicide attempt play out at the local hospital, where she knows people? If so, i would guess your preference to not have her about is more likely to be respected. Cause you know the whole staff had a good gossip, and if you halfway mention it, they will all know exactly who you mean and understand your position. There probably are people there that are cowed by her, but there are probably as many or more who would be very much on your side, and relish the thought of treating her as a meddling MIL instead of a co-worker.

It is good that your DH is with you on this

No, it's bad. It means MiL now has a reason (i.e. excuse ) to dislike the OP, since she has "turned" her PFB against her.

Or leastways this is how she'll spin it to the rest of the family.

BTDTGTTS .

But Lurking your awful predicament would have been a lot easier if you and you DW knew what your MIL was, if you knew then what you know now and had chosen to go NC I'm sure the LH household would have been a much happier place.

Lurking: that became the case when they became engaged, if not sooner. mIL had issues with her son simply moving away for school, like a normal young man.

diddi attitude is good too. When someone wont be pleased with anything you do, there isnt any point trying. Do exactly as you wish, if they are going to be horrible no matter what.

Good luck, OP. Support whatever decision DH makes about his parents, be glad he sees her clearly and can stand up to her. You dont owe us a Sunday report, you know. This crisis is over.

I am not surprised by any of this. I am to ashamed to tell you the hysterics we've been subjected to over 20 years. Do not underestimate the damage MIL behaviour is having on your family now, it will only get worse.

You need to set clear boundaries. NC is hard to maintain and should be a last resort.

We had what we called the granny wars , one side raged against the other with a fight to the death and take no prisoners attitude. It was appalling.

We tried boundaries (try to find the book called something like Why do nice People Have Bad Families, stately homes thread will know the proper title).

It makes many useful suggestions: meet in a shared public space; set a time limit for how long you are going to stay and agree in advance with DP; keep your private life private, tell details on a need to know basis, otherwise knowledge is power; do not engage with passive aggressive statement, ignore, ignore, ignore; be clear in what you a prepared to tolerate; remember that an invitation to attend is not an order.

Sadly for us, nothing worked, circumstances went nuclear. Had to move to last resort.