Is this MIL's finest hour?

[namechangeorimfucked]

I've had to name change because my family members know my name on here and if they knew what she was doing all hell would break loose..

MIL is currently on her way to the hospital to visit a relative (her niece). Niece has just this morning welcomed her first baby after a very traumatic labour that has lasted days. A failed induction and many hours later, she has had an EMCS and both are apparently doing well. MIL knows about all this because her SIL has been giving her updates as she receives them from her DD and her partner. She has relayed said details to me and DH.

MIL gets on ok with her SIL but does not like her niece, she has been very judgmental all through her pg, both behind her back and to her face. As a result of this, niece and MIL fell out at a family gathering about 3 months ago.

MIL received a message from her SIL saying that the baby is here but they do not want visitors til visiting time tonight. Despite being told this, MIL is going to the hospital to see the baby... Her SIL is not even attempting to go yet and its her GC.

Niece lives in another county, MIL is on her way there now, NHS staff badge around her neck, to pop in and see the baby. She accused the niece and of being 'silly' and once she gets there she will be happy to have a visitor. She also said that she has to go now because she is busy later in the week and 'can't be expected to wait for them'

The Niece's DP is on facebook now letting everyone know things are ok. Do me and DH tell him she is coming?

We explained to her that she will not be let in if they don't want to see her and she said she 'knows her way around' and is 'practically staff'. She is expecting to see the baby before her own SIL...this is going to cause a shitstorm so big it will consume us all.

I wouldn't be too convinced that the midwives will stop her coming in. So many issues like change of shift, information not passed on, your MIL knowing people etc. Also staff are so wary of incurring the wrath of others and having a complaint put in that if she puts up an argument she will probably win

I think the only way you possibly stand a chance is if - as advised previously - you speak to the Head of Midwifery with your concerns and with what has already occurred.

I'm loving some of the replies to the thread, especially the barricade!

I feel a bit better after a sleep and letting things process. We will have to tell people at the ward that we don't want her in, however as previous posters have described, if people see her walking about the ward, in her work clothes, with her badge on, they will most likely be in a hurry and just buzz her in. That was my main worry.

DH said that it doesn't matter if she tries it because people will recognise her and if we say not to let anyone near us, even if they appear to be staff, they wont. So that stops her using the badge to get in, or to try and get in un noticed.

There are other issues that worry me, her desire to have the baby on her own right away for example. We brought this up with her and that's where her comments about 'if I'm ever allowed to see it' come from. But she seemed to agree with our wishes.

DH thinks we should at least cut down contact to the tinyest amount, I think we should try and be normal around her, because I think the fallout and bad feeling around her niece and SIL is what caused her to start trouble with them.

I am never going to moan about my MIL again. Well, I will, but I won't be able to take myself seriously. Best of luck, OP!

Op, I'd consider going NC now. This way when she next gets a shitty on and threatens to go to court for her 'grandparents rights' you can point out she has never been in dcs life etc and she has no leg to stand on. Please, at least never let her have any sort of regular or solo care of the baby.

The only way to manage people like this is to either go NC, or to keep them at arms' length and just accept that they will try and manipulate you at every possible turn.

Yes. This.

Can you go over to the Stately Homes thread in relationships? There is a wealth of information in the opening post, and I think it would be a good idea for you and your husband to read it and prepare yourself for what her completely predicable antics will be.

The pills is a classic case. 'Look at me! I'm ill!' The most common of these is 'There's something wrong with my heart!'

I don't want to push you one way or another, but I think you and your husband need to have a sit down talk and discuss what sort of relationship you want with her in the years to come, given that she's never going to change into a pleasant person.

I think that you should also think about whether you want this person in your child's life. There seem to be two ways that the narcissistic person will behave towards grandchildren; she'll either dote on them while whispering unpleasant things in their ears, trying to turn them against you, or they'll try to extend the hatred down to them and will use and manipulate them.

Life got a lot better for me when I stopped worrying about my grandmother. It was like a weight was lifted. Turns out she didn't have 2 weeks to live after all; she's had three years and counting. Not rushing to her dying bedside was one of the best decisions I ever made. It feels like I've gained 2 years of my own life.

But she seemed to agree with our wishes.

What, the same way she respects everyone else's wishes?

If you think you'll be special and she'll listen to you - you're probably mistaken.

Your husband knows her far better than you. I think you're better off listening to him and being guided by him. Can't say that strong enough.

There's some very sad posts on Mumsnet from parents who have been undermined by grandparents and whose children have been seduced away.

Your MIL is, how was it you put it, convincing and highly manipulative. You're got a very very big red sign in front of you, and your husband's experience of her to boot.

Listen to the writing on the wall. It's in big, big letters.

She has mentioned her 'rights' in the past, she mentioned it around the time of our wedding and when DH moved out.
She has spoken about it regarding our baby too, but I always thought she didn't have any 'rights' this is what's worrying me with NC route, is it really beyond her to demand some legal access to her grandchild, I don't think it is. I know if things got really bad and we just cut her out she would do something like call the ss on us, and find other ways to cause trouble for us.

I'm having a look at the stately homes thread now too, thank you to the poster who suggested it

I think you have to hear her out, let her run out of steam and then parrot her words back as a terrible warning to her

so she says " i am never going to be allowed to see my grandchild"
you say "you will never be allowed to see your grandchild if you continue this ranting"

Keep it simple, like dealing with a toddler, as if they are only hear half of what you say so keep it short and in her own words.

Marking my place OP. Good luck!

Quote from the stately homes thread that I've saved "Please protect your DC from your toxic mother. I did not and now my DD who is 16 is totally enmeshed and believes all the utter crap my mother pours into her ears. I am NC with Toxic mother, but she feeds off my daughter and delights in turning her against me. It was the biggest mistake of my life allowing her to get close to my kids."

as far as I understand it, grandparents can go to court but -generally- unless there is a record of them having significant amounts of time with the grandchildren they -usually- fail in their application.

The courts look at what is in the best interests of the child.

However, highly manipulative people are sometimes really damn convincing.

Keep a record of every single incident - including this one that's just happened - and note everything down. And keep her involvement minimal. That would help if it ever got to court stage. Meticulous recording is your friend.

As said, I think you need to listen to your husband in this. She reared him, he knows her better than you and I think you're very much mistaken if you don't listen to him.

I'd suggest stepping back from preconceived ideas that grandparents should be and have to be involved, and look at the pattern of behaviour and how good/bad that is for the child. Family friends/uncles and aunts can be a very great deal better influence than a toxic person no matter how close the blood relationship.

Hi OP...just a sideline GPs don't have 'rights' to DGC...

GERTI s post nails it
Do not attend on Sunday- there is nothing to discuss. You will let her know what the arrangements for visiting ( or not) are once the baby has arrived.
Going on Sunday will just give her the idea that she is right.

She wont ever change and actually you have no right to want to change her- she can only do this herself by realising the effects her behaviour have on others ( she wont )
Toxic parents by Susan Foreward is a book often quoted on here and on the stately homes threads.

Ahh...X-post to Meerka

Essexmummy I'm so sorry thats happened to you, thanks for the warning to me. We all tend to play her down or make excuses for her behaviour, but no one knows what she might be like with GDC as she doesn't have any yet.

My mother cant stand her and doesn't want her to be near our DC at all.

Me and Dh are back at work today so I will check the thread again later. Thanks so much for everyone's advice.

I've had 2 traumatic births and I'm so pleased that your MIL wasn't allowed in to see DN and the baby. At your next midwife appointment you need to tell her that your MIL is toxic, that she has already had access to your confidential information and that she is not to come anywhere near you while you are in the maternity unit. Print off several photos of her for the staff and explain that she has an NHS badge. Make it clear that if you see her on the ward you will be calling the police and suing the pants off the hospital staff.

If all else fails and she turns up when you are on your own, press your buzzer continuously, scream and generally act like Lord Voldemort just walked in until someone comes and removes her.

She sat me down in her trademark way and spoke just like that to me when she brought up names for our DC. I lost a close male relative recently and MIL must have thought if the baby os a boy, we would name him after the deceased relative, because she said its nice but we cant really do that because then her side of the family would be left out and it wasnt fair.

Will your DC have your DH's surname? Problem sorted, they're not left out.

I think the fallout and bad feeling around her niece and SIL is what caused her to start trouble with them.

No, her batshit ideas about how you speak to people caused that. They were reacting to her appalling actions, remember?

sorry am late to the feed so have missed ALOT since yesterday evening. But I agree to cancel the talk on Sunday - her territory and her stage as someone rightly put it. It might indicate to her that shock horror she is not queen of the world. It just sounds truly horrible and I am so sorry that the most important event in yours and you partners life is being hijacked and basically ruined. Things you are saying are ringing true with my ILs but I have a religious mania problem to deal with and control in that DH will not stand up to them or correct their interfering and irrational behaviour which makes me more nervous than thinking about labour. I don't believe I'll have my DH back up in any sense of the word as he'd rather upset me than his mum. maybe I'll get a real battle axe of a MW who will guard the gates so to speak. Its just so sad that MIL and other IL can cause people such grief, stress and unhappiness at such a special time. Unreal.

her desire to have that baby on her own right away

WTF? I would be telling her she can shove her "desires". It's not her baby, she has no right to demand she has YOUR baby on her own. Please protect yourself OP. I have often read on here how MILs demanded their DILs to hand over their babies for overnights when they were so small and the poor DILs were traumatised over it.

You and DH need to just respond with a firm No when she comes out with crap like this, and that's it - end of discussion. She sounds loopy. I have real concerns when you go into labour though. She will appear at the door. I think you really need to speak with someone senior in hospital staff about protecting your privacy considering she could just land up.

Correction - desire to have THE baby, not that baby!!

If she is anything like my MiL, she will be well practiced at seeding confusion by ensuring no-one knows what she's up to. This was done by little 1-2-1 chats where she'd reveal something, but engineer it so I "mustn't tell MrsLH".

One classic example was for a hospital appointment for MrsLH. MrsLH and I had discussed it, and she was quite happy to go on her own. So I was going into work, as usual.

Come the evening before, and we have a phone call. MiL tells me that MrsLH had "told her" how upset she [MrsLH] was I wasn't taking her to the appointment, but she felt unable to tell me.

Cue massive resentment on my part as I had to pull a sickie to take a very confused MrsLH, who couldn't understand what I was doing.

Of course MiLs talk was laced with "you must't tell MrsLH, it would only upset her"

AT THE SAME TIME, Mil was "warning" MrsLH about how controlling I was and saying "I bet he'll insist on going with you to the hospital - that's what his type are like ..."

This went on for ages - years. We only twigged when something MiL said to us both didn't square with what she'd told us individually. At which point I (secretly) recorded MiL having a "chat" with me, and played it to MrsLH, who realised that it was the exact opposite of how the conversation had been reported to her. From then on, no matter what trick MiL used to ensure silence (which is where her "health issues" took centre stage. I wasn't supposed to "worry MrsLH") we always debriefed one another. MrsLH was blown away by her mothers lies, and it was quite surreal the level they got taken to.

If MrsLH and I hadn't had an open and honest relationship, and confided everything to each other, she would have succeeded in splitting us up. Another (early) trick was to encourage me to lose weight because "MrsLH would never tell you, but you could lose a few pounds". So I went swimming a couple of evenings a week. Again AT THE SAME TIME (bearing in mind MrsLH didn't know why I had started swimming beyond me jokily saying I could lose a pound or two) MiL was saying to MrsLH "This sudden swimming thing, do you think LH is having an affair ?".

Imagine 17 years of that, with our son in the middle . A childhood ruined.

Off to cry now .