To think this is rude at a concert

[TheRobbingBastards]

We went to DS's Summer concert last night. This is a big event for the music department and the children who perform.

My judgey pants were pulled well up at the couple who arrived with two younger DS's (about 7is) in tow, plonked themselves in the front row then fished an iPad in a luminous green case out of a bag. The two boys then spent the whole concert playing a game that involved much waving of arms. All the time they were sat in front of the stage, in direct eyeline of the children performing

In fairness they had the sound down, both boys stayed in their seats all the way through the concert and apart from the occasional muffled gasp or cheer they were quiet. I also realise that expecting DC to behave themselves through an event like that is easier said than done, and don't necessarily judge the parents for using an iPad to keep them entertained. It's more the inconsideration of allowing them to distract the performers as well as the audience several rows behind them.

So AIBU and curmudgeonly or was this unnecessarily rude and thoughtless?

Yes Bishop, one of my DC attends a specialist base within a mainstream school. Every single one of their performances or assemblies is a delight to watch, everyone's needs are included and there no judgey pants in the audience, just acceptance, pride and happiness.

I have DC with SN and NT DC, I balance their needs every day. We are a family and simply have to. It's not about someone's needs trumping another's, it's just about adapting and we do it every single day.

Good cross post SoldierBear

PurpleHairAndPearls Glad you get it now

Why are we always quick to assume that any child who behaves thoughtlessly or badly has SN. Can we not just assume in this instance that the children behaved that way because they had thoughtless ignorant parents who saw their own needs as more important than anyone else's and had a i do not give a fuck mentality.

But Purple some posters on here have dismissed the idea that children with SN might sometimes have to compromise, if there are other issues going on in a situation as well. Of course people have to adapt to anyone who has a particular need, but if possible it should be done in a way that doesn't impact unfairly on others. And by 'unfairly' I don't mean it shouldn't require putting anyone else out in anyway. But that things need to be weighed up and then decisions made.

I totally get that you do that. But the impression from some posters on here is not so tolerant and balanced.

Oh fucking hell.

I give up.

May I recommend Fenellas sandwich thread in classics, for anyone wanting an insight into why people say "the DC may have SN".

My last post wasn't aimed at you thisisnot, btw. It was a response to the list above from sweet grape.

I had to return to ask this.

If people with kids with sN are to compromise by sitting at back..what compromise areally the other audience members making? Since its a 2 way street?

Would be interested to know the answer.

Not going to address your other bitchy personal digs because you clearly choose not to or don't understand what I am trying to say..but what is this everyone compromising thing about? Letting the kids with SM attend at all?

most parents of children with sn compromise all the time. you might not see it . that is why.
but some times the need of their child means for once they can't compromise on that occasion,

Pardon the typos. I have concussion .

Would be nice if you could answer that without all the personal passive aggressive digs about "some people" etc.

Oh yes, sweetgrape

Let's just assume people don't give a fuck and not even entertain the idea that someone may have SN which need to be accommodated.

What makes me laugh or cry is that posters with DC with SN come on the thread and ask that people compromise to allow their DC to access things.

They then get shouted down with the usual "SN brigade" comments and then get told that they need to learn to compromise - the very point that we are trying to make!!

Well we can't assume can we. They could have had SN but they might not have, so why assume anything then?

FanjoForTheMammaries I don't know if this is addressed at me or someone else. I definitely wouldn't agree that all children with SN should be sat at the back. However I think some children, for their own good, may need to be. I know my dd feels more in control knowing she can easily remove herself should anyone irritate her too much This is her choice though and for her own good so obviously different to your dd. Generally I think it is the worst place to put children with SN though that do not wish to be specifically sat there - surely its the best way to guarantee that they will be bored and therefore may display some behaviours that others might perceive as distracting? The best place for many children to sit is where they want as they will be less stressed then. If that's the front - then great. Middle? No problem. The back? Also fine.

This still has nothing to do with the children in the op though!

No you can't assume. My point as that you weren't prepared to consider a range of possibilities.

Pardon the typos. I have concussion
From banging your head off the keyboard?

well one good thing about this thread is maybe at last mn hq will realise that just coming on and posting a link to the TIMC campaign, does not work.

No. Actual concussion sadly.

Yes there's a full range of possibilities, and one of them is....the parents are crap in allowing that to happen. Because if that is the case there must be a hell of a lot of bad behaviour being excused just in case the children have SN. Otherwise if bad behaviour from children must always be assumed to be because of SN, when would children ever learn anything if we were always to assume that.

Fanjo if that's aimed at me - the other audience members are probably making no compromise at all, you are right. None whatsoever. But a school concert in particular is not about the audience it's about the performers. And if people - whther they have SN issues or are just badly behaved - act in such a way in the front row that performers with SN issues cannot perform, what compromise have those people made? None whatsoever. But they have ensured that some performers are completely excluded from something that maybe they have been looking forward to (or dreading!) and preparing for for weeks. How can you possibly think that is right?

I think it's different at a professional performance. Professionals should be prepared to cope with whatever comes their way.

The fact is nobody at a concert, school or otherwise, has a right to sit in the front row and nowhere else unless that's the place that has been designated for people with mobility issues. Most people attending won't be sitting in the front row. This obsession with a right to sit in the front row is unreasonable. I'm not suggesting banning people from the Middle of front rows (Except obviously really really tall people ;) ) but a bit of thought about what will work best for everyone, audience and performers alike, is not an unreasonable thing to ask (and you have made it clear that you, like me, don't actually sit in the front row and do excercise that level of thought and consideration for others). I am very aware that my DCs involuntary jiggling might distract performers, I am very aware that my DC has a right to attend events - so we select our seats accordingly. Just like NT people who are short or tall or large or who have hearing or sight issues do. I don't see a problem with that, and I don't see it as either explicit or implicit exclusionism. I get annoyed when the parents of people who ostensibly at least have fewer issues than my DC don't exercise the same level of consideration for others.

MissDuke can I just say thank you for bringing up that you don't like visiting the SN boards because of aggressive posters? I honestly thought I was the only one.

Sometimes I think I might benefit from posting there but I'm constantly wary about doing so in case I say something wrong (which because I have ASD happens a lot) and I will be jumped on and torn apart.

Which is sad because it shouldn't be the case.

I'm beginning to wonder how we managed to raise children in the days before electronic gadgets . I suppose the ancient equivalent was the book or colouring book. And I know there is evidence that using these devices is 'good' for even babies.
I cannot comment on the particular challenges of raising children with special needs,as I thankfully have no personal experience of it, but surely all children need to be 'taught' that sometimes you have to sit quietly and at least pretend to be focussed on what is going on in front of you, as a courtesy to the performers. Life lessons and all that . And provision made for leaving quietly if they can't cope ?
But I am the type who bans gadgets at the table and gets arsed if someone I'm spending time with is constantly checking theirs .

I was given a book as a young child at church.

Can I please ask something without being jumped on though?

Like I've said before, I have ASD and have sensory issues relating to noise. I do have coping strategies in place to help me but sometimes if I'm already feeling very upset or stressed these don't work. So if a place is too noisy for me then I have two choices - either stay there until it gets worse and I end up breaking down and having a panic attack or getting myself out of the situation.

I always choose the latter which I think is the most sensible option but it is unbelievable how many dirty looks I've received and how many rude comments people throw at me when I do this. Usually from parents if it's a noise their child has been making that is the final straw (though it's always building up before then).

So if your child was making noises and I had to leave soon after because everything is too much for me, would you think I was a bitch? I kind of get the impression lots of people would when I'm only trying to do the right thing.

There was a thread on here a while ago started by someone who had a child with autism who had been making noises. Because of this a woman got up and left and she had her hand over her ears. The OP was pissed off and called the woman all sorts of nasty names in her thread and said she was rude and that her child had autism so "what was her excuse for being a cow?".

Except I recognised the situation and the woman the OP was bitching about was me. I did post on the thread and explained that I have autism too and have sensory issues. That it wasn't personal but I just couldn't cope so left for my own good. IIRC the OP went a bit quiet after that.

I didn't ask the woman or the child to leave. I wasn't rude to her. I just removed myself from the situation so I wouldn't have a panic attack or start crying. Yet I was still a rude bitch apparently...

There is an absolute world of difference between what was originally discussed in the OP and what people are describing now. This make me feel like a lot of posters (perhaps myself included) have come across as unintentionally disablist earlier in the thread. I'll be interested to see if I am deleted. I hope not but, if I am, then that's really embarrassing and I'm sorry.

I'm trying to think of a way to describe my views on what's acceptable which neither leaves SN out of the equation, nor makes them an unequal focus in the equation. Sorry if this still sounds disablist:

2 children interacting on the their iPads, playing a game, making occasional gasps and quiet squeals and waving their arms about in the front row (The OP's situation) - not fine* whether the children had SN or not.
Any number of children with dimmed iPads and earphones playing quietly on their iPads anywhere in the audience, front or back - fine* - whether the children had SN or not (personally I wouldn't allow it if the child was NT but that's parental choice)
Any person, child or adult, making noise and/or flapping anywhere in the audience - fine* if the individual has SN or is under about 3 years old. Other than that, very rude and the individual should leave.

To me those three (or six if you want to say that the addition of SN makes it a different situation?) are quite different and are currently being lumped together and confused.

The worst distraction I've ever had at school was a child (about 2 years old at a guess) who joined our cast on stage and tried to join in the dance routine. Her parents thought it was cute. To me, who had spent hours choreographing the thing, and to the children, who had spent hours learning it, it was not cute! In that kind of situation, I actually don't think it makes any difference whether the stage stowaway had special needs or not, the parents just needed to lift her off the stage asap!!