To think a surgeon should ask permission before drawing on your body

[Purringkittenmama]

A while ago, I was referred to a breast surgeon for a lump to be investigated. Is it in any way OK, after being prodded for a few seconds, for him to turn to the (lovely) nurse with him, and say 'Do you have a pen?' before turning back to me and drawing on the area. Without asking me, warning me he was going to do this, anything. For the ultrasound people I think (although they seemed a bit taken aback to see that he'd marked it). AIBU to still feel angry/upset/ violated by this?

Fermerswife- all the very best to you.
Of course the lumps are the most important thing. My point is just that at a very stressful time, or indeed any other time, is it unreasonable to expect a little politeness and respect? Or is it OK not to expect that because either- they will make you better or- you will be alright.
Those unfortunate enough to have a diagnosis of cancer have to trust these people moving forward, and if, on the first occasion of meeting, you are made to feel like something they have stepped in, I am guessing that that is not easy.

I'm sorry to hear that you are facing surgery for your benign tumour fermer's . If it does come to having your head shaved for surgery, and I sincerely hope for you that it doesn't have to come to that, would you would expect the HCP who does it would give you an explanation of what they were about to do, and indeed check with you that it was OK to proceed? Because that's what Purringkitten is asking.

I'm quite astonished by this thread actual at the levels of acceptance of paternalistic health care behaviours. The attitude that 'so long as they do their job well it doesn't matter how, or even if they talk to me to explain what they are doing and check that's it's OK'. Like somehow the two concepts are mutually exclusive, that a surgeon doing their job well is somehow exempt from interacting with another human being with even the most basic levels of courtesy. It is not only possible to do both, to do an excellent job and to respect your patient enough to briefly check with them before drawing in their breast, it actually improves the short and long term outcome of the interaction. You've put your patient at ease, they trust you, they feel that they have some power within the relationship, power to question and say no at any point within the assessment, they are likely to feel less anxious after the appointment, they are likely to feel less apprehensive about future appointments. All these things are good no? and so easy to achieve.
Believe me, the NHS is not under strain because of unreasonable expectations from our patients that we explain to them what we are doing and check that it's OK before doing it.

Absolutely, Haggswood

"I couldn't care less if they shaved my head as long as they do a good job."
But would you prefer if they said "we're just going to shave your head now, OK?" or without speaking just got the clippers and got stuck in? I honestly don't beleive anyone would prefer the latter.

"There is something also called implied consent. Say you go for a blood test, you stick your arm out, blood gets taken. You weren't asked for permission to take your blood, but it was implied when you put your arm on the pillow."
Yes, but I've never had a blood test where the nurse didn't follow up the initial consent with "sharp scratch coming up" and something like "You OK?". These little acts of "checking in" with the patient are important, otherwise they may as well get rid of HCPs and programme robots to undertake procedures instead.

I hope things go well for you fermerswife.

They don't shave your entire head for brain surgery as it happens. They just shave the bit they need to get to and clip the rest of your hair out of the way while they're working. Depending on the site and the length of your hair the shaven patch can be covered up.

The most important thing is obviously to remove the tumour, but appearance is important to most people too and if you can look normal after surgery your mood will be better which will have a beneficial effect on your recovery. I guess that's why they do it like that.

Compassionate doctors treat their patients with respect, whether that's shaving their heads or mentioning that they're about to draw on their bodies.