To think a surgeon should ask permission before drawing on your body

[Purringkittenmama]

A while ago, I was referred to a breast surgeon for a lump to be investigated. Is it in any way OK, after being prodded for a few seconds, for him to turn to the (lovely) nurse with him, and say 'Do you have a pen?' before turning back to me and drawing on the area. Without asking me, warning me he was going to do this, anything. For the ultrasound people I think (although they seemed a bit taken aback to see that he'd marked it). AIBU to still feel angry/upset/ violated by this?

DH is a paediatric surgeon. His patients get to choose whether they get a smiley face or a dog as their surgical marks

Stopping, now that would be inappropriate.

I agree, some doctors do have poor communication. However, being drawn on when you had a nurse present and had already consented to an examination, is perfectly normal. You get manhandled in the mammagram machines and in sterostatic biopsy, better that than they miss something.

Wherethefuck

good grief OP what a fuss over nothing! The drawing was part of the examination you were there for and consented to.

anyone would think you had suffered this gross misconduct
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2528813/Top-surgeon-suspended-claims-seared-initials-transplant-patients-LIVER.html

Tall- sounds like your DH is trying to put his patients at ease-as far as possible-which, I feel is what all good surgeons should do, that and treat people with a level of respect. However, I take on board the general consensus that AIBU.

That's surgeons for you! Very normal procedure, he didn't do anything unsafe, infact it means the correct boob will be treated!

Sorry IABU

Touching a patient without consent is assault.

However, presumably he had been touching op for a while before he made the mark.

I think it would be useful feedback for the doctor for you to let him know (maybe via PALS) that you were surprised and upset to be drawn on and in future patients may benefit from being specifically warned. I'm sure he would rather his patients leave not feeling violated

'QUTSTL'

Er, what?

Seems perfectly normal to me (speaking as someone who just had two operations, six lots of chemo and 15 lots of radiotherapy)

Don't think I came away from any appointment without a pen mark of some sort on my chest/boob/side. I can't remember them asking for permission before hand, I was just glad it was all being dealt with.

corBlimey I once started shaving a patient for a cat 1 section whilst she was still awake, without telling her. I still feel fucking awful about it. I usually try to make eye contact and tell them what I'm doing. :(

Quite Unreasonable To Say The Least. At a guess.

What would you prefer? A 'surprise' bit of washable marker pen on your tit or dead in a year or two because they identified the wrong area?

I know what I preferred. Similar to WhereTheFuck, I'd have been happy with a full scale drawing of the West Ham insignia witnessed by the entire Welsh rugby team as long as it meant it made it through the other side. Thank god I did, but if they'd got those markings wrong, who knows?

YABU to most people. To me, and perhaps to Where, you're being astonishingly ridiculous and very upsetting.

I hope with all my heart that you and Where both get positive outcomes at the end of what I know too well to be a frightening, uncertain time.

Cheers, wherethefuck. I was stumped.

Thanks for reporting back and acknowledging everyone OP.

I think he could have said something, but nevertheless, the fact he didn't shouldn't have been given a second thought.

And wishing you health and happiness too GemmaTeller.

Why do you feel violated is it because of the area or because of the touching without telling
Because someone could brush past you in the street- your kids have probably drawn on you without consent.
If it is a personal inhibition thing then you need to work through that and the issues that have arisen.
If it is a being precious thing-and it does sound like it might be you need to get over yourself

You are there (I presume) to rule out cancer and this is what you were worried about? Dont get it personally.

YANBU. It's poor communication and rude. A simple sentence of explanation as to what they were going to do next and checking that was ok. You are not a cattle carcass.

Another poster here who thinks the OP is receiving some particularly harsh and unkind responses. She's not mentioned the results of her ultrasound, maybe we should be showing her some kindness before laying in with the get-a-grips. Never ceases to amaze me how in people's rush to decry someone's unreasonableness, and to get the boot in too, when the whole backstory to the OP would in most day to day circumstances elicit even a little amount of kindness and sympathy.

I'm also a little surprised that other poster's circumstances and stoicism seem to be an argument to negate the OP's feelings following this event. It doesn't, and should not work like that. Just because someone else has been through worse doesn't mean that what the OP has experienced is without value and should not be considered within the realms of poor practice.

I'm an HPC and before I put my hands on a patient to assess them I explain what I'm going to do and check that it's OK. Some of tests I might do within that assessment require increased intimacy or the possible production of pain. Again, I explain what I'm going to do and check that it's OK. It costs me nothing, apart from a few moments of talking. It puts the patient at ease. It helps balance the power within the relationship so they are not just a passive recipient and I am 'the professional' doing things to them. It gives them repeated opportunities to say no, which they are fully entitled to do as they have complete autonomy over their bodies. It enhances our therapeutic relationship. It is part of my professional code of conduct to do so. It protects me from litigation. And most importantly it repeatedly makes me focus on the fact that this is a person standing before me, not just a body with a list of symptoms. They may be the twelfth person I've put my hands on that day, but I am the first health care professional they have seen, and that for them this is not a normal every day experience.
Courtesy and kindness cost nothing. Spending a tiny bit more time talking to your patients, yes, costs time, but the benefits of doing so are tenfold.

It's good that they do it but they should warn patients first.

I'm honestly trying to understand where you're coming from, but I just can't. Sorry.

I had an examination a while ago, the surgeon drew on me. It was just part of the exam as far as I was concerned. For me the prod and poke was the worst bit, a bit of biro wasn't worth a second thought

to both of you, justglad and gemma

If they hadn't told me they were going to draw on me before surgery then I would have panicked when they did so and thought they were starting before I had gone to sleep! Also it was quite tickly.

It wouldn't have hurt for him to warn you what he was doing, but not doing so is a fairly minor transgression. You are being unreasonable to feel angry/upset/violated, especially if this happened a while ago.