To think a surgeon should ask permission before drawing on your body

[Purringkittenmama]

A while ago, I was referred to a breast surgeon for a lump to be investigated. Is it in any way OK, after being prodded for a few seconds, for him to turn to the (lovely) nurse with him, and say 'Do you have a pen?' before turning back to me and drawing on the area. Without asking me, warning me he was going to do this, anything. For the ultrasound people I think (although they seemed a bit taken aback to see that he'd marked it). AIBU to still feel angry/upset/ violated by this?

I understand how you feel. You want healthcare professionals to treat you as a human not a piece of meat. He should have warned and explained and it was rude and arrogant for him not to do so. That said, it is about par for the course with a lot of surgeons so I don't think it makes him a bad surgeon iyswim

It wasn't that he did it. It was that he didn't bother even asking if it was OK. And I do understand that it is standard practice, as had other surgery more recently where lovely surgeon asked before she marked.

Just posting to roll my eyes..... Seriously?

No wonder we are having to import doctors if this sort of attitude exists.

YABridiculouslyU. Its ok for him to "poke and prod" your breast but not mark on you an area for further examination. It was all clearly necessary and for your benefit.

Get a grip

And much less intimate area too.

YANBU. It wouldn't hurt him to say: 'Miss/Ms/MrsPurring, I'm going to mark your breast with my pen to make absolutely sure the scan is done in the correct place.'

Unfortunately some consultants are unable to speak Human to underlings, who include their patients.

They should go into pathology if they can't be arsed to develop a decent bedside manner.

I have always had body parts drawn on before scans, ops, etc. I'm not sure anyone has ever asked me if it was ok before doing so. Didn't bother me in the slightest but if it upset you then it upset you.

Did you have a breast care nurse with you, if so maybe you could have mentioned it to them afterwards and she could have told the consultant.

Nope sorry think YABU. You had consented to an examination and were indeed in mid examination. As far I can see this was all part of the examination. Claiming to be violated is OTT in this situation

Well said WhereTheFuck !!

OP I don't think you are being unreasonable to be unhappy about not being forewarned or asked about having your breast drawn on.
Whether it is standard procedure or not, before you do something to a patient, particularly something as intimate as drawing on their breast, you ask them first. You are overriding patient autonomy if you don't. That, and, for fucks sake, he drew on your boob. Common decency would SURELY dictate that you ask first, it's not like it's an every day occurrence for most women.

I agree it is normal to him, which is probably why he did it without asking or explaining, but it's not beyond all bounds of reasonableness for a doctor to remember that he is dealing with vulnerable people who may have all sorts of fears, not all of them rational, and to behave accordingly. Saying 'I'm just going to mark the area for ultrasound, to make sure the correct area is scanned' wouldn't be much of an imposition.

I've had these investigations done and luckily everyone involved was very aware of what I was going through. Best of luck OP.

So you understood the reason and in principle didn't mind having it done but you are upset that he didn't say he was going to do something that you knew he would need to do and were ok with him doing?

Riiiiiight..........

Yep, here's another grip, get over yourself

Gained consent before touching her? Her OP says he'd already prodded her for a few seconds, presumably with his hands...
OP yabvvvu. Drawing on you is simply to direct the scanners. They are skilled at ultrasound, he is a breathing consultant to he has to highlight the area they need to focus on.

If you've already consented to the operation, then you have consented to be drawn on if that's what the surgeon needs to do. Maybe the surgeon should have been more polite about explaining what he was about to do, but I'd be prepared to forgive lax manners in someone who had the skills to give me an operation I need.

Doctors are extremely intelligent people but ime they don't always have the bedside manner. He was just going his job and making sure others knew the correct area rather than you have to be prodded more than necessary. I think yabu but I do understand your feelings.

Hmmmmm, no-not something I could get myself worked up about. Sorry definitely BU.

Why should he have gained your consent before touching you??? He was investigating a possible lump, at your instigation.
Touching without consent has no meaning in these circumstances. Your consent was implied when you walked through the door to be examined.

Hey! What's with the OP bashing?
She has her feelings and she's entitled to them.

We are all different, react differently to things and situations, and we all have valid feelings that are worthy of respect.
Some of these 'get a grip' posts are really horrific and hateful.... and absolutely unhelpful.

Op could you get some counselling about your surgery and trauma of having this breast lump, and treatment. It might help to talk with someone about how to process your valid feelings of violation. Could your treatment in the doctors office have triggered a memory of something in your past for example? It might be helpful to talk with someone.

Wishing you the best of health!

He wasn't doodling to pass the time or playing noughts and crosses! I think you're being ridiculous.

Purring, no they didn't warn me. But I didn't feel that I needed any warning, seeing as how he had just physically examined me. He asked my permission to touch me in the first place, to carry out the examination, but he didn't warn me a second time when he drew on me (different consultants each time, not the same one on all four occasions) as I would imagine he felt that it was covered by asking consent in the first place. And I also felt that he covered it by asking consent in the first place - getting drawn on was nowhere near as intimate as the main part of the examination.

Thanks whether.

I'm not minimising the op's experience, however, surgeons in this situation sometimes need to use every ounce of their concentration while examining and determining. My surgeon performed most of my exam with his eyes closed and didn't speak to tell me what he was actually doing or why until much later. I'd like to think that that was because he was kind of busy working out if he'd have to save my life and how.

Does it really matter that much. I presume you are well and a good job of your care was done. I would let it go.

Perhaps it would ahve been polite to ask/mention first. But you were there for breast examination and you could say there was implied consent. He was doing a good job.

Let it go.