to be so fed up with school making this my problem every time?

[velvetspoon]

DS is in yr12. They completed AS exams last week and are now back to a normal timetable starting their A2 work.

DS was late in on Monday. The subject teacher of his first lesson is away this week, so DS decided it didn't matter if he was late in as would just be a cover teacher.

But of course the school then phone me. Again. Do I not appreciate DS needs to be at school at 0830 daily? Do I not know where he is? And then I explain that when I left the house to go to work, he was preparing to leave so no I didn't know he wasn't there. Etc.

I don't object to them letting me know he's not turned up. What I do object to is that the whole tone of the conversation, every time, is that it's my fault. My responsibility to make sure he's there. Even though he's 16, and I (unlike most mums in this area) do actually have a proper job to go to, so I don't have time to be ferrying him to school, or even dealing with their calls when I should be in meetings.

I already do my level best to get him to school including waking him up every morning - I only do that because otherwise he wouldn't get up in time for school and then I'd be the one getting yet another call from the school and yet again it would be my fault.

I'm trying my best to instil some kind of personal responsibility in my son, and get him to realise he can't just do what he wants but the fact the school only ever have a go at me really doesn't help!

He has a study period first lesson today so is refusing to go in at usual time so I expect another call from the school sometime this morning

There are no sanctions imposed by the school against DS1, my understanding is that they don't give detentions etc to 6th formers

That is an issue.
I agree that parentuing a 16yo isn't the same than an 8yo and unless the OP is changing job/stops working to be able to be at home when he is supose to leave, she needs the support of the school.
At the place of said teenager, why on earth should he make the effort if the school doesn't seem to care if he is there or not (and no sanction from the school says exactely that)?

Besides, he should be treated as nearly adult with all the reponsibility that goes with it. That means if you don't turn up, expect some problems coming your way.
If he was working, he could lose his job. If he was an apprentice, he could lose his apprentiship. But as a 6th former.... mummy is going to tell him off like an 8yo?

OP could you go and see the school and have a word with them. Explain to them what you are doing already, that it's not working. Thank them fior letting you klnow about the fact he isb't in but then ask them how they can help?
You really need their input on the top of yours.

Only read the first two pages but you've had some harsh replies on here. I had this situation with my dc who was 17 and 18 at the time. What I would advise is telling the school you are very unhappy about his poor attendance, what you're doing about it (talking to him about consequences, any sanctions etc), and stressing that you will support any sanction they are willing to give him. Pointedly tell them that they need to sanction him because it needs to inconvenience him, not just you.

In exasperation I used to tell the teacher just how fed up I was of my dc's attitude and behaviour and explain that we were at the end of our tether, they were always quite sympathetic when they realised I was supporting them but just failing as much as they were to change it.

He's 3 inches taller than me and built like a prop forward. I can shout at him (and do) but I certainly couldn't physically make him do anything, he is a lot bigger and stronger.

Rhonda, this isn't the first thread of mine you've been snippy on. Can i suggest you RTFT?!. I dont object to being informed. I've said that quite clearly. I do object to the school apparently considering it is all my fault and absolving DS of any responsibility.

Just read the bit about no sanctions for 6th formers, I'd be bringing this up with them and reminding them that if he was in work he'd get sanctions for stuff like this and isn't school meant to be preparation for real life?

Actually, I have RTFT, God only knows why because it's a mirror image of the other one. Everything is the school's fault - again.

You should be thanking the school for caring about his attendance, not bemoaning the fact that they don't bow down in wonderment at the fact that you go out to work.

I get where Rhonda's coming from because I read your previous thread and have RTFT here and whether you mean to or not it does come across as everything's always someone else's fault and never yours so what do the expect you to do about it.

I do get that a 16 YO is difficult and I actually dropped out of 6th form many, many years ago and was the child who lied blatantly to her parents (I even forged my moms signature on the leavers form so they would not know). When they eventually found out they went batshit. I was given limited choices as to what my next move would be - take up alternative FT education at college, YTS or other job and pay housekeeping or move out. Now I am sure I wouldn't have been kicked out but at the time I thought they would. Both my parents worked so either they supported me to better myself or I contributed to the household.

I get that he has study periods but actually if they have to do that at school then so be it - that is the rules and he has to comply. If he doesn't tow the line what consequences do you have that you can put in place? Can you draw up and agreement between you?

BTW I do have a DS who is planning on attending 6th form in September

I have teenagers who go in late if they have a study period first thing. They are also allowed to leave after their last lesson of the day. This is normal and permitted in their school as long as the parent has given permission (via a form signed at the beginning of the year). Next year when my daughter is at senior high we won't even have to give permission - attending lessons at the right time will be HER responsibility as a young adult.

What is the policy about attending study periods at your son's school? What are the sanctions for not going?

16 year olds are not children - requiring them to be at school when they don't have lessons is ridiculous.

For the umpteenth time, yes I agree they should tell me if he's not there.

However I don't think it's my sole responsibility. I have told him to go to school, and how important it is for his future. I am the first and only person in my family to graduate from university. I would like nothing more than for him to be the second. He is well aware of that.

I've also imposed sanctions.

However it's not like this is every day or week, or month even. But I have still had more than enough calls from the school. In fairness the last one was to ask me why DS hadn't sorted put his work experience (or rather why I'd not sorted it out for him...). Again which appears to be something the school expected me to do.

You're amazingly brave to come back to MN after the previous roasting you got, Velvet.

FWIW I reckon yanbu. But fat lot of good knowing that will do you.

I'm sure this has probably already been covered, but isn't the school "in loco parentis" legally: "in place of the parent"? Aren't they obligated by law to notify you when your child, whom you have placed in their care (so to speak), is not or has not been where you and they expect him to be?

Yes OP, maybe the school should take matters into their own hands and expel your son.

I'm sure if they did expel him for tardiness, you wouldn't complain at all? After all, you want them to deal with him!

16 year olds are not children - requiring them to be at school when they don't have lessons is ridiculous.

Actually, they are children in law, but that's neither here nor there.

You can't cherry pick the bits of the school day to suit your personal preference. If the school says come in for study periods or to discuss applications to university, you go in. Or at least have the courage and the courtesy to phone the school and tell them why you think the rules that apply to every other student don't apply to you.

[Disclaimer: I have two teenagers]

OP, didn't you say on the previous thread about your younger DS non attendance at school that your elder son had previously also had attendance issues? He'd missed so much school that he wasn't in regular classes? You've posted before about your ongoing difficulties with both boys, with the younger one staying up all night playing video games and then saying he had a headache and staying off school even when you told him to go in.
When both children are regularly finding reasons/excuses not to go to school, then there is an issue. You know your DS won't get himself up, won't even wash a few dishes even you're away for the weekend or bother to get you a card for your birthday, yet you're annoyed that the school are putting the responsibility onto you. For a teen with a previous history of attendance issues and what you have portrayed as a pretty selfish attitude to doing anything around the house despite you working long hours. Maybe the school judge this to be serious and are using their knowledge of what he is like and judging you have to be involved because there is nothing else they can do?
Is the real question how can you sustain your working life and support your sons to attend school and become self sufficient young men?

What is the school doing though, apart from calling the OP?

I would expect the school to actually impose sanctions and to want to put something in place with the OP. Even more so because attendance and results are monitored so closely that a child who isn't present when they should and maybe probably isn't getting the grades they should will have an effect on the school itself.

It's not an issue about the Op not taking responsibility. More the fact that it's something that will be solved by working together rather the OP trying to do things on her own that clearly aren't making enough difference.

One last thing to posters who have read previous threads etc... You are all having a go at the OP for not taking responsibility etc... You also seem to miss one important information. The fact that on that famous previous thread, she got advice, she listened and impplemented it and it worked.
Now maybe before having a go, you could at least recognised that.

Maybe you should tell me how to do it soldierbear, given you're clearly an expert on my life.

It's a safeguarding issue.

He is 16 so not yet an adult. And a 'missing' child is an issue and this is why they make contact with you.

I bet the OP would have a problem with the school kicking him out /exculdinghim permentaly as that is basically the only option for them if you do not engauge with the school the get him to attend.

Its all well and good you washing your hands of the problem because you work (as does most of us I would bet).

Support the school with getting him to go to lessons / in on time and if he needs it use extrem sanctions no internet , no computer games / consoles , no tv, no electricty after 9pm in his room, no lifts to activities or soical events or what ever else work.

Make it actully hurt that he doesnt attend lessons (I dont mean violence I mean things that effect him rather than a talking to / slap on the wrist etc) Because otherwise you are providing him a dis service because very very few places are as lienant as schools are about attendence (in work you would be fired pretty damn quickly, in decent universities you would be kicked of the course if you did not meet the attendace threshold (atleast they do at oxford since I went there).

But on the other hand you can also do nothing and let school deal with it by asking him to leave / forcing him to drop out and see how that would effect his university chances and let him make his own bed and deal with concequences resulting from those actions.

(and they need to be in education or an apprenticship until the age of 18 unless that policy has been stopped)

Wait a minute, Velvet.
You put up that info which does have a bearing on the current situation. Both your DSs have issues with going to school. Your elder DS especially. You did not put that info in your OP and it does seem to be pertinent. this is a boy with a history of school refusal, which makes the schools actions more understandable.

Okay, so what do YOU think should happen, knowing your DS refuses to take any responsibility? Should the school just give up, rather then bothering to get in contact with you?

Also - I have refused to give a reference for a former student because of a range of 'factors' but mostly because I wasn't able to confirm their suitability to work in the care sector.

Refusing to give a reference says more.

and you can give a bad refernce if it is totally factual (or basically say you refuse to give one)

It is only illigeal if the 'bad reference' is untruthful

For example if I fired someone for gross misconduct and a futre employer asks me for a reference (gods know why someone would ask for a reference if they have been fired) I am allowed to say they have been fired for reasons amounting to gross misconduct (insert the evidence here ) I would also be allowed to give % of attendence and % of being late for work which all amounts to what could be considered a "bad" reference and I would be good if it is all factual.

Its a myth that companies are not allowed to give bad reference / not tell the full picture etc and should be dispelled as such

It's odd that DLA make a 16 year old an adult, but pay out child benefit for those who go to college up until 18/19.

Up here, they're adults at 16. I have a 15 (very nearly 16) and a 17 year old - if they are late for school then it's up to the school to deal with them and they need to accept the consequences. I'm a firm believer in treating them as the young adults they are, giving them as much independence as possible - which means responsibility for getting themselves to school on time or facing whatever punishment the school deems is possible. I'm not about the take responsibility for their tardiness as adults.

The school has a legal obligation to know where their students are during the school day so they have to contact you to find out why he is not there. I know it must be frustrating for you but if he didn't turn up to school and they didn't contact you, you would be upset too

Of course it is your problem/responsibility as well as his. It seems to be a regular occurrence and you're right, his employers would not be calling you if he was late, they would just sack him. Kids of this age are preparing (hopefully) to enter the world of work and that means discipline, personal responsibility and showing they can be independent and not reliant on mummy to get them up. You are not the only one who works in a 'proper job' as you put it but the rest of us still manage to get our kids out to school or teach them to do it themselves.
I don't think he will last too long in a study or work environment with this kind of attitude; as a manager I would not put up with it for long.