to be so fed up with school making this my problem every time?

[velvetspoon]

DS is in yr12. They completed AS exams last week and are now back to a normal timetable starting their A2 work.

DS was late in on Monday. The subject teacher of his first lesson is away this week, so DS decided it didn't matter if he was late in as would just be a cover teacher.

But of course the school then phone me. Again. Do I not appreciate DS needs to be at school at 0830 daily? Do I not know where he is? And then I explain that when I left the house to go to work, he was preparing to leave so no I didn't know he wasn't there. Etc.

I don't object to them letting me know he's not turned up. What I do object to is that the whole tone of the conversation, every time, is that it's my fault. My responsibility to make sure he's there. Even though he's 16, and I (unlike most mums in this area) do actually have a proper job to go to, so I don't have time to be ferrying him to school, or even dealing with their calls when I should be in meetings.

I already do my level best to get him to school including waking him up every morning - I only do that because otherwise he wouldn't get up in time for school and then I'd be the one getting yet another call from the school and yet again it would be my fault.

I'm trying my best to instil some kind of personal responsibility in my son, and get him to realise he can't just do what he wants but the fact the school only ever have a go at me really doesn't help!

He has a study period first lesson today so is refusing to go in at usual time so I expect another call from the school sometime this morning

Wow rogue! Bad teachers get signed off with stress?
I'm an ex teacher with nearly twenty years experience. OFSTED and the schools I have worked at have all deemed me good or better.
I was signed off and eventually left the profession because of the relentless pressure. Constant marking and planning I expect but being made to work more and more and do unpaid training, constant paperwork and new initiatives. Carrying all the equipment needed has caused back problems. I ended up with anxiety and moderate depression.
Good to know that was all my fault for being rubbish at my job.
Jesus. With attitudes like that from parents is it any wonder teachers are bloody stressed?

The teacher I'm mostly thinking about seems to be liked by none of the pupils as she talks very quietly, gives the impression she isn't bothered about the pupils, can't explain how to do maths problems. This teacher recommended that pupils who didn't understand particular problems take them to their (private) tutors, according to my DC - so not necessarily accurate. Some of the children used to go to the head of dept to ask for help with the syllabus. The head of dept is alleged to have sympathised with them when they complained about this teacher and told them he couldn't do anything about the teacher. I admit it's hearsay. But, I wasn't impressed with this teacher at parents' evening either.

The head of dept is alleged to have sympathised with them when they complained about this teacher and told them he couldn't do anything about the teacher

Allegedly. And if the HOD did any of the things described they were being unprofessional and could be on the sharp end of a grievance procedure if the teacher found out. And yes, he can always do something.

Agreed echt

I'm glad I'm not the only posterwho found rogue 's comments about capability and illness distasteful too.

Teaching in the regular school system in the UK at least is a stressful, demanding, largely thankless tasks - there are many excellent teachers. I left after 5 years mainly because at my secondary school I was told informally in the corridor by my misogynistic head master that I should either come back full time after maternity leave or not at all, as "You mums who want to go part time loose all your commitment when you have babies

That not withstanding. .. by 6th form motivated students can teach themselves certain text book heavy lessons. I did it myself - the teachers (we had 2 for each subject at A level) were ok, but the 6th form college had decided for some reason to make sociology the default 3rd/ 4th A level for people who had only 2 preferred subjects ... consequently the class was a strange mix of not very motivated 16/17/18 year olds who (to quote a totally different teacher who probably would be disciplined these days) were mostly "there to keep out of the rain" and not really interested in either the subject or getting good grades generally... I told the teacher I got on with better why I wasn't coming to class and he was actually quite understanding and said I could come and see him in breaks if I needed pointers... and left me to it. I didn't attend regular class at all in the upper 6th for that lesson - I worked in the library and sometimes in cafés and on the beach and got an A. But it was sociology :o and the entire core curriculum was contained in one hefty text book, with an appendix full of references to follow up in the college library, so it was fairly easy. It wouldn't have worked for other subjects necessarily.

Motivated 6th formers can teach themselves - that fact is unconnected to whether teachers are "good". It does indicate such students have received good teaching previously to give them the skill set for independent study though!

That was you. One person.

It's a problem! How awful for anyone who is frequently signed off their work (for whatever reason). And it must be very stressful to be doing an important job when you don't appear to be enjoying it. But it's annoying when your child genuinely has no faith in their teacher and isn't doing as well as you think they might with a different teacher. Luckily I could afford to buy her a few sessions with a tutor. It's very common in this school catchment area to use tutors.

Allegedly. Yes. I acknowledged that. I'm aware of the fact that teenagers love to be over-dramatic and it struck me as unprofessional of the HofD if s/he actually said that. But there definitely seems to be a problem with that teacher.

I'm in Scotland btw Probably a different appraisal system here.

So how do you tell who are the good ones?

You can tell who are the good ones if the pupils they teach say that they are are good at explaining things and that they are covering the syllabus. Do you really not think that older secondary school pupils have any idea of who is and isn't a good teacher?

Following your argument, pupils can also bad results in spite of good teaching.

They do sometimes get bad results unfortunately. My maths A level teacher didn't results as good as she should have got because everyone was concentrating on physics. The physics teacher only managed to cover 2/5 of the syllabus in two year and the rest was covered by private tutors/text books. The physics results were better than the maths results.

As for academic pupils teaching themselves, could you point me in the direction of evidence for this. Any? Go on.

I got an A in physics. As described above physics teacher only covered 2/5 of the syllabus and taught it badly.

echt a couple of other people have said the same. I'm absolutely sure I'm in no way unique and that plenty of people have done the same :o However it's obviously not something anyone would have any reason to collect statistics on, and would be hard to measure the extent to which it happens on any kind of scale.

Wolfiefan - sorry I've missed your post till just now.

I didn't say that teaching isn't stressful for capable teachers too. But the stress is probably going to be increased if you're not coping.

I have a lot of sympathy for the pressures teachers are under and often tell my DS that a teacher's lot is not an easy one.

Dear OP ....

I really feel for you -- having had a similar situation with DS a few years ago.... hhe was bullied badly (including by teachers) and really hated the school... (his academic performance was excellent though). He complained continuously and tried not to go to school.

I agree with longtimelurker101... about how schools get antsy about parents who accuse them of not doing their jobs (when the results come in) so - please do think about this and maybe explain this to DS?

with my own dc, we told him that school was just part of life's rich tapestry (ha ha) and that he needed to learn to 'fit in'... he did his best ----hated everyminute of it and kept a tally - down to HOURS... laughable especially when he had a gp appt and was able to say 'I've 72 days and 3 hours left'...

the upshot of this bad experience is that he's looking at the world differently 'no - I'm not arguing with that... easier just to get on with things .. especially after all I went through...' He is havin success with his uni course...

I think htat the experiecne might have been 'good discipline' for him... I mean - how about all those kids in the ARMY

the other thing to consider is that education is actually (like healthcare) still FREE at the point of delivery in this country. It may be rubbish (sometimes) but at least the structure is there unlike in many other countries- including the US where the Michigan Supreme Court recently ruled that education isn't actually a 'right' (michiganradio.org/post/michigan-court-rules-against-aclu-right-read-case#stream/0)

I've not read all the posts on this one (apologies) but just to say - each school place costs the taxpayer something like £5000/year... & for my own kids, I want to try to work with the system and really support it as best I can... I'm not thanking ALL of the teachers but I am glad that my ds is on his way to being a responsible educated adult who just might be able to pay his own way (and that includes rent/mortgage)

As for academic pupils teaching themselves

I sat through a year of Sunet Song (which I hated) in class and used Catcher in the Rye (which I loved) in the final Higher exam (we hadn't even touched on it in class). I got an A band 1.

Sunset

Of course academically able pupils teach themselves (or make use of other resources at their disposal) especially when in low achieving schools...I got an A in one of my GCSE exams despite not having been taught ANY of the syllabus by my teacher, who 'got confused' and taught us the syllabus from an entirely different exam board. I used a family friends A level notes in that subject to revise from. A classmates' dad helped her to revise as he had a degree in the subject) - we were the only ones from a class of 30 who passed.

I think some teachers are not terribly good at their job, this was the case when I was at school in the 1980s, and it's still true now. Some schools also still have a rather universal poverty of aspiration, which I find really quite sad.

Anyway in response to a couple of points arising above....

just to correct the assumption DS wasn't lying in bed the day he had a cover teacher, he did go in, but slightly late, so he went straight to the library to study for the remainder of his first lesson before going to the second. Yes,he should have gone to the lesson irrespective of who was teaching, and will do in future.

Someone was surprised I don't get sick pay..well strictly speaking I get ssp, but that's it. My employers pay discretionary sick pay, but rarely in practice. So easier to assume I won't be paid for sickness absence. This is fairly common among large law firms nowadays. The days of getting lots of perks for being a lawyer are long gone (mostly before I was even qualified!)

DS isn't a persistent truant. There are no measures in place to deal with lateness or absence because although he's been late and absent several times during the year, (enough times for me to be fed up with the calls) it's not enough to tip him into the persistent late/absent category, which I think is at about 90% or below.

I'm going to try to let the school's calls bother me less. And next time there is a call,will suggest a meeting.

In the meantime, I am still prodding DS to get a pt job, so he can a) learn that work is a lot harder than school and b) pay for driving lessons (and then hopefully drive himself to school once he passes which will give him even less excuse for being late).

Like I said OP, schools are now under such pressure for students to attain their predicted grades that these phone calls can be written down as contact with home regarding lateness.

They have to be so stringent because Senior Leadership, OFSTED, govenors and parents all require loads of evidence of what teachers have done in order to deal with issues. Sadly this is where education is now. Everything must be quantifiable and evidenced. Any teacher doing the wrong syllabus these days would be out on their ear, anyone who would be really poor would be because of this too.

Also, the system can get rid of good teachers because they make their lives SO difficult with unreasonable workload demands that people jack it in.

There ARE poor teachers yes, but not nearly as many as made out here.

The joys of parenting teens!

I'm surprised that there are teachers out there who genuinely don't believe that there are older teens who teach themselves. Give them a bit more credit - those pupils know exactly what they know and don't know, and the more motivated ones will be proactive enough to seek out knowledge to fill those gaps. After all, they will be at University in the not too distant future, and will be expected to work in that way.

This would piss me off - next time they ring tell them that as a 16yr old your son is taking his own responsibility for getting to school - and tbh if his grades are there and hes making it in...whats the problem?

Or you could just say, "Thank you for letting me know. I'll talk to him."

Of course academically able pupils teach themselves (or make use of other resources at their disposal) especially when in low achieving schools...I got an A in one of my GCSE exams despite not having been taught ANY of the syllabus by my teacher, who 'got confused' and taught us the syllabus from an entirely different exam board. I used a family friends A level notes in that subject to revise from. A classmates' dad helped her to revise as he had a degree in the subject) - we were the only ones from a class of 30 who passed.

Your story. One person. What subject?

just to correct the assumption DS wasn't lying in bed the day he had a cover teacher, he did go in, but slightly late
Late is late. You're excusing him.

DS isn't a persistent truant. There are no measures in place to deal with lateness or absence because although he's been late and absent several times during the year, (enough times for me to be fed up with the calls) it's not enough to tip him into the persistent late/absent category, which I think is at about 90% or below
You're pissing and moaning because the school keeps getting in touch with you about your son's absence… so these are measures.

Upthread I asked you what you wanted the school to do. You haven't responded to this. The school will expect you to have thought of this before the meeting you want.

Your story. One person. What subject?

3 stories - from 3 separate people echt.

I'll admit many students do improve their learning by working on their own, independent learning is great and actually an indicator of achieving higher grades. If you just do your classwork/homework and nothing extra I'd reckon most students would achieve a B/C at A level max.

However "teaching" themselves is a different thing and it is being used here to belittle and diminish the impact of the professional, whilst bad teaching is being used to beat them with a stick.

OP Your child is doing what many year 12/13s do and picking and choosing what they want to do. Fine, but the school are only doing their job and making you aware.

And a phone call does not count as a measure. I would expect a half decent school to have proactive measures in place so that they don't waste their time phoning parents who have a word with their older teens who ignore those words and who continue to be late. Our High School certainly does.

It's not being used to belittle and diminish at all - what an odd thing to claim. Examples were asked for, examples were given.

The subject was Economics. In truth, those subjects I did well in at GCSE were mostly self taught, my school wasn't great, most of the teachers were fairly demotivated and the pupils disinterested. I went to a very different school at 6th form, where the standard of teaching was excellent and without which I wouldn't have made it to the university I did.

I'm not making excuses for my son, I've quite clearly acknowledged he wasn't there when he should have been. Various posters have been referring to my son lying in bed sleeping when he should have been at school, which wasn't correct. I'm simply correcting their mistaken assumption . Likewise it's been said my son is a persistent truant (he's not) and on report,in special lessons doe to poor attendance etc with the school (he's not).

I will at any meeting be saying to the school that whilst I will continue to do what I can to ensure DS is at school on time as I have to date (ie kicking him out the door at 0730, or making sure he's ready by the time I leave if it's earlier than that), and imposing sanctions of he's late or misses a lesson, he has to share the responsibility. So whilst I appreciate them informing me, I expect them also to speak to him to support what I will be telling him at home, ie that attendance and punctuality are essential and will affect his future, and so on. I won't be doing any more than I already do because I think at his age that would be counter productive.