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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sharing tables in cafés

963 replies

Athenaviolet · 01/06/2015 18:48

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

OP posts:
SoldierBear · 10/06/2015 17:10

Has the world turned upside down ?
It is never unreasonable to sit in a seat you have booked and paid for and which has been reserved for you.
Anyone attempting to argue the reverse on the grounds that they are channelling their inner Greta Garbo needs to join the real world. And get up onto their hind legs and find another seat.
How heartening to learn that other posters have employed the Catherine technique of removing inanimate objects that stupid people are using as a barrier to letting passengers sit in an unoccupied seat.

OnlyLovers · 10/06/2015 17:41

my fell intentions

I must applaud you on the use of the word 'fell' in this meaning. Rare and pleasing.

Mehitabel6 · 10/06/2015 18:18

I am left terribly disappointed that I never meet these bizarre people!
People like to try and get a double seat, but they know that on a busy train it may well not be possible as it fills up.

ItsNotAsPerfectAsItSeems · 10/06/2015 18:24

But, but, but, Lilac, if there was lots of free seats then why on earth would she choose the one next to a reserved ticket. You can clearly see them sticking out the top telling you details of the reservation.
So I board at London and I want to get off at Birmingham and the reserve ticket on one of two seats I approach says reserved between Watford and Birmingham then I know in 15mins someone is likely to sit next to me. If, however, it says reserved between Manchester and Glasgow then I know it's highly likely I won't be asked to move my bags as I'm getting off before the reservation.

So why choose a seat next to one where it's highly likely that someone with that stealth motive of, you know, sitting in the seat they've reserved, will be along shortly?

Binkybix · 10/06/2015 18:35

Ooh! I've got another Catherine example by proxy.

My dad was on a packed train and asked a man to move his bags which were spread over 2 (yes 2!) other seats. Man refused. Dad didn't say anything more but was fucked off. Then about five minutes later another HUGE guy who had obviously been stewing on what a dick this 'Catherine' was suddenly snapped and removed the bags. Everyone did, in fact, clap.

Icimoi · 10/06/2015 18:37

I must applaud you on the use of the word 'fell' in this meaning. Rare and pleasing.

OnlyLovers: Smile

Mehitabel6 · 10/06/2015 18:55

There are 3 sorts of people

  1. Those who keep tidily to one seat.
  2. Those who spread into the next seat, but remove stuff as the approach a stop with lots of people getting on (that is me)
  3. Those who keep their stuff on the spare seat and avoid eye contact- are asleep, on laptop etc in the hope that other seats are chosen first- but move stuff when directly asked.
I have never come across 4 - those who want 2 seats and think they are having 2 seats no matter what! That is why I thought for ages it was a wind up.
LilacWine7 · 10/06/2015 19:00

I have read your last post several times, trying desperately to make sense of it.
Andrew had pre-booked a seat. He had paid for it. He wanted to sit in it. He was not a sexual predator. This is what normal people do. They book, pay, sit.
What is difficult to understand about this?

As I said before, Andrew was not wrong for sitting in it. I was trying to help him understand the woman's negative reaction. He walked past lots of empty seats and wanted to sit next to her, she asked if he'd mind sitting somewhere else (presumably at this point she didn't know it was his reserved seat). He explained he'd booked seat and wanted the table, so she moved her bag and he sat. My point was... until he explained he'd booked it (and his reason for wanting this seat over all the other free ones), she will have wondered why out of all the empty seats he chose the one right next to her. I'm not saying she thought 'sexual predator' far more likely she thought 'lonely man who wants someone to talk to'. When a train is half-empty most people don't sit next to strangers... they take a double-seat. Many people don't sit in their reserved seats or even try to locate their reserved seats if there are lots available, so the woman wouldn't necessarily have assumed it was Andrew's seat or even noticed the reserved ticket on it. I expect she was relieved when he took out his book and didn't talk to her. I've been stuck on many long train journeys with a very chatty stranger in the seat next to me, so yes my heart sinks if someone makes a beeline for me when there's an abundance of empty seats!

OnlyLovers · 10/06/2015 19:02

Sorry, Lilac, but you'd have to be a bit dim not to put together 'person' and 'ticket in back of seat' and come up with 'Oh, it's their seat.' It's not THAT hard to notice a ticket stuck in a seatback, is it. Really.

'I was trying to help him understand the woman's negative reaction'

You patronising ninny.

LilacWine7 · 10/06/2015 19:08

Since my uncle got his free bus-pass he makes a point of travelling everywhere on buses, striding up the aisle and telling all the 'youngsters' to take their bags off seats. He doesn't want to sit next to them he just likes seeing them squirm and move their bags and I guess he feels he's doing a good thing for society. I also suspect it's a bit of a power-trip! He's a (retired) sergeant-major so can be very scary. Not sure he'd get away with this in a cafe though!

SoldierBear · 10/06/2015 19:12

There is no point in trying to explain her frankly stupid reaction because it defies rational explanation.
Hth

LilacWine7 · 10/06/2015 19:20

you'd have to be a bit dim not to put together 'person' and 'ticket in back of seat' and come up with 'Oh, it's their seat.'

Perhaps she was a bit dim or just not very observant of the seat-back. Or maybe she just didn't like the look of him and hoped he's sit elsewhere. I don't really see why Andrew was bothered by her initial reaction, since she moved her bag when he said he'd reserved seat. Plenty of rational explanations why she might not be overjoyed to sit next to him, fact is she didn't stop him.

Mehitabel6 · 10/06/2015 19:26

I am very surprised that he gets away with it on a bus, lilac!

SoldierBear · 10/06/2015 19:32

He was bothered by her initial reaction because it was irrational, inconveniencing him and frankly rude.

EvansOvalPiesYumYum · 10/06/2015 19:50

Maybe she thought he was lonely and feared he'd want to chat the whole way

Since when was someone chatting to you a 'fearful' thing? If this is how you feel, then you have a problem that needs to be addressed. (And I am truly not being facetious here). It is completely and entirely possible to politely chat to someone on a journey, without the necessity of making the chat last the whole way
I personally find it lovely to engage with the person sitting next to you (briefly or otherwise), and then if you choose, bury your nose in your book.
If you are fearful of engaging with any other member of the public, then I feel it should be up to you to decide to stay at home, in order to avoid anyone and everyone.

Icimoi · 10/06/2015 20:07

When a train is half-empty most people don't sit next to strangers... they take a double-seat. Many people don't sit in their reserved seats or even try to locate their reserved seats if there are lots available

That really isn't true, you know. Due to the fact that there may be lots of empty seats available when you first get on, but trains have a way of filling up. So you may swap the known quantity of sitting next to one woman for sharing a table with 5 noisy, belching footy fans and find yourself stuck in hell for three hours.

whois · 10/06/2015 20:15

Oh right, so now we aren't even meant to sit in our reserved train seats in case we offend someone sat in the adjoining seat.

Strange.

ilovesooty · 10/06/2015 20:23

The ticket inspector may take issue with someone who isn't sitting in the seat they reserved. You have to hand that part of the ticket over for scrutiny when they come round.

Mehitabel6 · 10/06/2015 20:49

My reserved seat says that my ticket is only valid with it.
I have no idea how full the train will be but it has lots of stops and I shall be sitting in my reserved seat- even if next to someone.

findingmyfeet12 · 10/06/2015 21:34

Even if the train is full of empty seats it's downright rude to refuse to move your bag. The fact that there were empty seats is irrelevant. She has no right to organise the seating arrangement on behalf of other paying passengers.

In reality I'm braver on an anonymous online chat room and probably wouldn't have the confidence to challenge a person behaving like that irl.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 10/06/2015 21:37

Or maybe she just didn't like the look of him and hoped he's sit elsewhere
There is no reason at all why Andrew should waste a moment of his time considering this illogical and stupid notion. Straws being grasped here, I feel.

SoldierBear · 10/06/2015 22:49

if you use public transport or any public space, then you are highly likely to come in contact with members of the general public, who are generally not interested in their fellow passengers or any hang ups they may have. It is unreasonable to project your personal hang ups to such a degree that they impinge negatively on others who merely wish to travel from a to b or to have a cup of coffee in relative comfort.

Mehitabel6 · 11/06/2015 05:36

I have just seen this on FB and it made me laugh from very British Problems I think this is the general response to Catherine and her bag!

LilacWine7 · 11/06/2015 12:19

Since when was someone chatting to you a 'fearful' thing? If this is how you feel, then you have a problem that needs to be addressed

By 'feared he'd want to chat' I meant that heart-sinking feeling at prospect of being disturbed... not fear as in feeling 'afraid' or under threat. I don't know what that woman felt, but I know if a person made a beeline for me on a train (and ignored all empty seats in favour of the seat next to me) my first thought will be 'Oh no is he hoping for someone to chat to, there goes my peaceful journey'. I am not fearful of engaging with someone, but I am wary of chatty strangers when I may be stuck with them for several hours.

Having said that, lots of people do get anxious/fearful at prospect of interacting with strangers... and IMO that doesn't mean they should 'stay at home, in order to avoid anyone and everyone'. People need to respect others' feelings, and respect everyone has a right to NOT interact. Should a person with social anxiety or communication difficulties be confined to a solitary life indoors just because others feel no-one should be be silent and self-contained in public? If someone seemed anxious or reluctant to talk to me I'd just leave them alone. Likewise if someone seemed anxious with me sitting next to them, I'd try and find another seat and give them some more space. This is basic kindness and good manners.

It is completely and entirely possible to politely chat to someone on a journey, without the necessity of making the chat last the whole way

Yes I agree, and I've had many enjoyable chats with strangers on trains. But I've also been stuck next to people who talk incessantly for hours and don't take hints to stop. Many people have limited awareness of when it's time to stop talking. Maybe I feign polite interest too convincingly or just attract talkative people, but I still haven't found a polite way to say 'please be quiet now I want some peace'. Is there a polite way (other than opening a book/pretending to sleep which is often ineffective)? Chatting to strangers is not compulsory.

I personally find it lovely to engage with the person sitting next to you
Now and then I feel the same. But there are times when i don't want to talk at all I just want to sit in companionable silence with my own thoughts.

SoldierBear · 11/06/2015 19:15

Lilac, nobody is saying that people who do not wish to exchange a few words should stay indoors.
People are saying that a person has the right to sit in a seat they have reserved without interference or obstruction. If there are empty seats then the person who does not wish to be seated next to anybody should move. If a person was genuinely anxious about the possibility of being seated next to another person then they should not have sat down in a seat with a reserved ticket on it but chosen another place. And at the same time acknowledged that an occupational hazard of using public transport is encountering members of the public.