Sharing tables in cafés

[Athenaviolet]

I'm genuinely not sure if IABU here.

I was in a cafe today. It was quite busy. Tbh if I'd known it was going to be busy I'd have gone elsewhere. My reason for going wasn't for the food & drink but for somewhere to sit to look up jobs on my phone, take notes etc. I wanted to sit for a couple of hours and it cost £6 for the privilege which I could do with not spending. There's tension in the house atm so don't feel comfortable there.

After I'd finished my sandwich but was still drinking my juice (in a transparent bottle so was obviously not finished) an older man came over to my table and asked if anyone was using the spare seats. I said no because that was the truth but it made me extremely uncomfortable him sitting next to me. I found it really hard to concentrate and left before I otherwise would have. (I have autistic traits so find 'social' situations difficult) I spent the next hour driving about in the rain.

Was he being unreasonable 'invading' my space? I was in his situation the other day and I just stood and waited for a free table. I think this is the polite thing to do.

Could I have said "please don't sit there while I'm still having my order"?

I'm very uncertain in these sort of social dilemmas. Imo when I'm paying (the extra) for a sit in meal part of what I'm paying for is 'the experience' of a table to sit in peace at. If I was just hungry I'd just go to a drive through.

I think dh has encountered Catherine - or Catherines. He commutes daily and sometimes comes in steaming about someone who thinks their bag and coat get their own seat on the 5.45 from Waterloo. They always sit in the aisle seat and put their stuff by the window; do they really think that people are going to stand up for an hour in order to let their bag ride in comfort? Dh has had a couple of altercations with people who actually say no to moving their stuff. I have heard the guard announce on occasion that people must not hog seats with their possessions. It's a shame that people have to be told to act in a considerate fashion.

You'd think any decent person would be embarrassed to have their behaviour highlighted by a public announcement.

To deal with type "Catherine" is quite simple. Remove bag from seat, eject on to next platform, and then make use of the 2 available seats as Catherine tries to retrieve bag just as the train moves off.

This thread is hilarious. I have never actually met a 'Catherine' in real life. I hope I never do. FWIW I put my bag on the seat next to me but the moment the bus/train starts filling up, I put it on my lap. How anyone could possibly think it is acceptable for people to have to stand just so their precious bag has a seat is ludicrous and utterly selfish.

I met a "Catherine" about three years ago. Two and a half hour rail journey, and I had a reserved seat at a table next to her.

I asked if she could move her bag and she said she couldn't, there were plenty of unreserved seats, would I mind sitting somewhere else? She preferred the seat next to her to be empty.

I said there were no free seats at a table and I preferred sitting at a table, that was why I booked one. Would she like me to put her bag in the rack or would she prefer the luggage vestibule at the end. And with a very bad grace she muttered "The rack, if you must" and I put it up top for her and took my seat.

I've never come across a Catherine, thank heavens. I rather want to now though, just so I can sit on her bag. (not a euphemism).

Taken the attention off Jaleh and her discriminatory caff, though, hasn't it?

Now I don't use public transport as a general rule ('cos I ALWAYS get lost and end up I the wrong place - true, ask my family who've had to rescue me from up and down the country) Bless them and their little imperceptible sighs. (I can still hear them, you know, 'dear' Family)

BUT NOW - I really, really want to hop on a bus or train to see if I can win a seat from a bag, or sit next to someone who ( doesn't want to sit next to MEEEEE!

Someone may have to volunteer to rescue me, though

Catherine has name-changed. She usually posts as Liz Windsor.

Andrew while I agree you have every right to use your reserved seat, I don't understand why you insisted on it when there were other unreserved seats free. If carriage is half-empty yet you still insist on sitting right next to someone... IMO that's inconsiderate. Not wrong just inconsiderate. Half the time I don't use my reserved seat if I come across a better one in a less crowded/quieter part of train.
And I appreciate you say you never talk to people in cafes, but plenty of people do prattle away to strangers... I have no way of knowing whether someone wanting to share my table will sit quietly or not so in a cafe... so I'd rather not risk it. IME most people wanting to share a table (or seat on train) also want to chat. Or maybe i just look deceptively friendly and approachable

On trains I accept you have to put up with sharing personal space and listening to strangers talk at you. However, in a cafe, where I have paid for the experience of a nice drink and sandwich, I feel I have a right to enjoy the ambiance without hearing all about someone's latest hip operation, vet problems or views on global warming. I also don't want anyone trying to chat me up or asking personal questions. It's surprising how many people will keep chatting to you even when you appear immersed in a book. I'm too polite to ignore them completely or tell them to be quiet.

I don't think Jalleh's cafe is unusual in it's policy. How many cafes actually FORCE their customers to share tables or put up a sign saying all seats must be filled up? I've never been told I must share my table. Years ago in Nero I complained to a male barista when a man wouldn't leave me alone and the barista immediately told him to leave (man wasn't sitting quietly though, he kept asking for my phone number and talking to me in a sleazy way. However the barista didn't see any of this, he just took my word for it that the man was being a pest and showed him the door). If the cafe is prepared to evict anyone who is pestering another customer (including sitting at a table where they're not wanted) the cafe isn't breaking any laws. The cafe isn't discriminating just because most customer complaints are about men pestering women... they are simply dealing with situations as they arise and creating a safe place for everyone.

I have actually seen a 'Catherine' episode on a train. Thameslink from St Albans,just in case it really was Catherine. Woman refused to move her bag and coat. Man asked politely about 3 times then picked them up and dumped them in the aisle which was a little wet and muddy. Woman was stunned the. Furious when everyone, did indeed , start to clap and cheer. She got up, started to cry and went to stand at the other end of the carriage. Everyone went back to ignoring each other all the way into Town. It was a little surreal. It it happened these days then in sure it would be on YouTube or something with a million hits and comments telling him well done. I've never seen another refusal nor has DH, which is good because it reminds us that this behaviour is ridiculous and thankfully rare.

Funny, isn't it, this sort of thread kicked off by an OP who is probably being a bit unreasonable - but has her own issues which she openly acknowledges

and then...

posters join in such as LilacWine7, Jaleh and CatherineTheUnreasonable who take the thread to a totally different dimension

I have lived in London the last thirty years - and have yet to see a pushchair -v- wheelchair scrap in real life let alone the Café Security to Prevent Men Sitting at Tables with Women and The Inalienable Right to Sit Alone on Public Transport. I must get out more...

Lilac, surely the woman was far more to blame? If she really wanted to sit next to an empty seat then why in Earth sit next to a seat with a reserved ticket above it?

Or maybe i just look deceptively friendly and approachable

Somehow I doubt it.

LilacWine7 There were no other table-seats free - the unreserved seats were non-table. I prefer a table, so do many others, that's why they are the first to be reserved where reservation is allowed and the first to be taken where it is not. All the table-seats in my carriage were reserved or taken, and I was not going to wander from carriage to carriage looking for one that was not which I probably would not find - that's why I sat in my reserved seat. I was not prepared to sit with a seat-back in my face just because she was too precious to sit next to somebody. I certainly wasn't sitting there because I wanted to chat!

However, in a cafe, where I have paid for the experience of a nice drink and sandwich, I feel I have a right to enjoy the ambiance without hearing all about someone's latest hip operation, vet problems or views on global warming

You've paid for your drink and your sandwich. If you want them sans humans, you should take them home. Most people don't particularly want to talk to strangers in cafes, but if they too have paid for a nice drink and a sandwich, their right to a seat is obviously as great as yours!

My husband and I were travelling out of London on a packed commuter train when a Catherine-Boy refused to move his rucksack from the seat across the aisle to let DH sit down. Just refused, wouldn't look at him. So DH removed bag and sat down. Catherine-Boy then stood up, picked up his own bag and then went to kick DH's laptop bag! DH stood up too and said "what's your bloody problem?" Catherine-boy sat down.

And why is this interesting? Because surely, you pick your battles, and DH, wearing a Hagrid-style Greatcoat, looks a LOT like this:

DH's doppelgänger.

You pay extra to sit in a cafe, otherwise the owner would go out of business.

It is up to the owner to decide what kind of cafe experience they want to provide. That might be sharing tables, getting a table before you arrive or not allowing new customers to join occupied tables.

I'm not even really arguing that one option is better than the other - really whichever option makes the owner more money, which will depend on their customer base - just pointing out that it is up to the cafe to decide how they want to serve customers. As long as they provide the same service to everyone without discrimination, there is no problem.

I find this thread hilarious! I have train seats booked at the end of the month. I have chosen them and, regardless of how many free seats, I shall sit in the one that I have booked.
I think that I shall now be a little disappointed if I meet the usual reasonable people and not have a Catherine to do battle with.

Mehitabel6

Bon voyage!

I bet my journey is uneventful.

I certainly wasn't sitting there because I wanted to chat!

She didn't know that though, so I don't blame her for being a bit wary about your motives for wanting that particular seat. But yes she was rude to try and stop you sitting there.

Woman refused to move her bag and coat. Man asked politely about 3 times then picked them up and dumped them in the aisle which was a little wet and muddy. Woman was stunned the. Furious when everyone, did indeed , start to clap and cheer. She got up, started to cry and went to stand at the other end of the carriage

This is strange. I've never encountered someone who point-blank refused to move their bag and let me sit down on a train. The woman was rude and obstructive, but IMO the man was also out of order to pick up her belongings and chuck them on the muddy floor. You don't touch someone's handbag and coat just as you don't grab the person physically, no matter how obstinate they're being. It's aggressive. Why didn't he just get a staff-member to deal with her? Also how did the people watching know there wasn't more to the situation than a stranger wanting to sit in a free seat? What if she knew the man and found him threatening e.g. an abusive ex-partner? What if he was a stranger who'd been stalking her on platform, staring and making lewd comments, or he'd said something that made her feel very uncomfortable? Or if he was drunk? IMO in certain exceptional circumstances it's ok to say no to someone sitting next to you on the train. If someone was drunk, hyped up on drugs, seemed threatening or I had good reason to feel very uneasy about them, I would say no. I wouldn't make a scene but I'd explain why I felt unsafe to a member of staff. Safety is important and staff in cafes and on trains do recognise this.

You have quite the lurid imagination, Lilac.

You have quite the lurid imagination, Lilac.

You've only just realised ?