seats on public transport

[sassyandsixty]

OK, I know I'm old-fashioned, but is it unreasonable to expect children to give up seats for older people these days? During half-term, a crowd of children rushed onto the train and grabbed seats that older people were aiming for. They then complained when asked (very politely) to give them up. Parents were around, but didn't even try to get their kids to stand - only gave us the evil eye. What is going on here?

OP - yes, of course it's rude - that unseemly competitive gleeful race by groups of school children etc to tube seats, pushing past people about to sit. Normally, I have seen teachers give the offenders short shrift - but I guess that goes out of the window in a teacher free zone.

And it would be equally rude if it were a group of 29 year old women or a group of adult males or a group of robust older people. We're not talking about a clutch of barely walking toddlers.

But as another posted commented -
YANBU but you'd be amazed at the number of people on MN who'll tell you that you are.

OP - yes, of course it's rude - that unseemly competitive gleeful race by groups of school children etc to tube seats, pushing past people about to sit. Normally, I have seen teachers give the offenders short shrift - but I guess that goes out of the window in a teacher free zone.

And it would be equally rude if it were a group of 29 year old women or a group of adult males or a group of robust older people. We're not talking about a clutch of barely walking toddlers.

But as another posted commented -
YANBU but you'd be amazed at the number of people on MN who'll tell you that you are.

OP - yes, of course it's rude - that unseemly competitive gleeful race by groups of school children etc to tube seats, pushing past people about to sit. Normally, I have seen teachers give the offenders short shrift - but I guess that goes out of the window in a teacher free zone.

And it would be equally rude if it were a group of 29 year old women or a group of adult males or a group of robust older people. We're not talking about a clutch of barely walking toddlers.

But as another posted commented -
YANBU but you'd be amazed at the number of people on MN who'll tell you that you are.

OP - yes, of course it's rude - that unseemly competitive gleeful race by groups of school children etc to tube seats, pushing past people about to sit. Normally, I have seen teachers give the offenders short shrift - but I guess that goes out of the window in a teacher free zone.

And it would be equally rude if it were a group of 29 year old women or a group of adult males or a group of robust older people. We're not talking about a clutch of barely walking toddlers.

But as another posted commented -
YANBU but you'd be amazed at the number of people on MN who'll tell you that you are.

OP - yes, of course it's rude - that unseemly competitive gleeful race by groups of school children etc to tube seats, pushing past people about to sit. Normally, I have seen teachers give the offenders short shrift - but I guess that goes out of the window in a teacher free zone.

And it would be equally rude if it were a group of 29 year old women or a group of adult males or a group of robust older people. We're not talking about a clutch of barely walking toddlers.

But as another posted commented -
YANBU but you'd be amazed at the number of people on MN who'll tell you that you are.

OP - yes, of course it's rude - that unseemly competitive gleeful race by groups of school children etc to tube seats, pushing past people about to sit. Normally, I have seen teachers give the offenders short shrift - but I guess that goes out of the window in a teacher free zone.

And it would be equally rude if it were a group of 29 year old women or a group of adult males or a group of robust older people. We're not talking about a clutch of barely walking toddlers.

But as another posted commented -
YANBU but you'd be amazed at the number of people on MN who'll tell you that you are.

sorry - iPad gone beserk

I've offered my seat to kids when they've looked small enough to be unsteady on a bus as I can reach the handles etc. I wouldn't expect anyone to offer me their seat just because they happened to be younger than me though. Why should a 13 year old move just because I'm older than them? Yes of course it is polite to offer your seat up to somebody that you feel might need it more, pregnant, elderly etc.

If somebody asked me for my seat, to be honest I'd just let them have it, as I'd assume they needed it, they may have a need that I can't see. I have awful back problems and it tends to be made worse when sitting for any period of time so it's usually better for me to stand anyway though to be fair.

Whilst I wouldn't discourage a child who was nice enough to stand up and let someone in their 40s sit down, I wouldn't ask a child in my care to do that unless said 40 yr old was disabled, pregnant or carrying a baby.

But children rushing and pushing to get the last seats are rude and badly brought up. Even as a middle aged adult I would always glance around to make sure there's no one else who needs the last seat more than me before sitting down.

But you see some incredibly rude parents on public transport - a couple with small children not bothering to take any of them onto their laps so that someone can sit down; or not asking older children to stand up to let an elderly person have a seat; or hissing at their child to stay put it's their seat, so it really isn't surprising that there are equally some very bad mannered children using public transport.

It is not difficult to teach children to show some respect for adults. They are expected to at school with teachers and they should ( I hope) show respect for their parents. If it is taught early then it is more likely they will still be respectful in their rebelliousteens.

I used to get the bus to work every morning when it was full of teenage high school kids. It was a bloody nightmare. They were rowdy, rude, swearing, climbing on seats and rude to other passengers.
I imagine none of their parents would think their child behaved like that but the reality is many do!
Its all very well saying 'Why should they stand for a healthy adult'? but why shouldn't they??! Its a nice thing to do and shows they respect other people.
Hopefully the same will be done for them when they become adults.

Its small things like this and other small things that add up to the sort of disrespect and rude behaviour that I witnessed on the bus every day.

Children did not swear at adults when I was a child. Today they do. I think parents ARE responsible for this.

but why shouldn't they??! Its a nice thing to do and shows they respect other people.

Does that apply to adults as well? Should adults also show they respect other people?

people are using the words courteous, considerate, and polite when they actually mean deference. Only the last word explains the imbalance between what's recommended for children and what's recommended for adults.

For what it's worth, rowdy behaviour shouldn't be tolerated. Teachers should be respected. but that's not actually the topic.

It applies to everyone but the topic is children giving up seats for adults. You can call it deference but it's to teach children to respect adults. Adults have gone through that stage and should have learned that. Call it practice for life!

It's a small part of a bigger picture. If this was taught then you may not get groups of teenagers acting like a mob on a bus as if they are the only people who exist. They would recognise there are adults and children on the bus and they should be respectful of them.

Drank

I think quoting people's words to them, and in bold, is making it clear what you are referring to in their answer, and to whom you are speaking.

Not rude - practical (IMO)

A bit of deference from kids and teenagers would be no harm at all. I hate if I'm sitting on a bus and there are elderly people around and a group of teens are cursing and swearing like troopers. It's so disrespectful. Also, I remember telling a friend about how my frail father who used a walking stick had to stand for the entire journey once on public transport while well dressed business men and women ignored him.

She answered ruefully that her teenage daughter and her friends would probably do the same because 'they wouldn't even 'see' him'. That's the issue nowadays a lot of the time. Not deliberate rudeness but total self absorption. Maybe making kids stand up more for people on public transport might just give them some instinctive awareness of fellow passengers so that they won't grow up to be the selfish knobs that couldn't be arsed to offer my father a seat.

But no doubt a lot of them had parents who were more interested in their kids 'entitlements' than in teaching them to be decent human beings.

Chalet

I agree with everything you say, except the word deference

I have worked with elderly people and have always made them aware of the fact (right from when they were little, on scooters), that frail elderly people cannot get out of the way quickly. And I have taught my kids that swearing in public is likely to offend.

..made my children aware, that is

A bit of deference from kids and teenagers would be no harm at all.

societies where deference to elders is a deeply held value do suffer a lot from it.

*I hate if I'm sitting on a bus and there are elderly people around and a group of teens are cursing and swearing like troopers. It's so disrespectful.

Who's defending that? The idea that your child shouldn't curse loudly on a bus can be universally applied. That doesn't just apply to children. That is in fact courteous, polite behaviour which I would of course support. It's deference that I don't support.

Also, I remember telling a friend about how my frail father who used a walking stick had to stand for the entire journey once on public transport while well dressed business men and women ignored him.

and that's appalling. My child would get a stern nudge to move if such a man was standing near her. And she'd be told that next time she better not wait for me to tell her.

my DD is very energetic, but she is constantly reminded about watching her step around older, frailer people, and she is getting more aware of it. Her grandparents are also getting more frail, and she feels the connection I think.

But all those examples have nothing to do with deference for age itself. they are examples of being empathetic to someone in need, and pretty much everyone on this thread has said that's a good thing.

I think it is good manners for children and young people to offer their seats to older people. I know some think it old-fashioned and bring their little darlings up to think they always come first but mine were brought up to offer seats, carry bags, gold open doors, etc. Now they are adults they find their good manners make good impressions on others

We went to a large event in a city recently, transport was enormously busy. My mother was with us, she is in her 80s and walks with a stick yet on the train heading home two boys, I'm guessing around 10 and 12, who were sitting with a couple who looked to be in their late 50s or early 60s remained sitting while she struggled to hold onto a rail and her walking stick. A middle aged woman near them gave mum her seat and said very loudly and pointedly that she should not be standing as it wasn't safe for her and that she was giving up her seat as the boys hadn't seen fit to and yet they and the adults with them still sat and ignored her.

I do sometimes wonder how society will be in the future when children are brought up with such a lack of consideration for others

You can call it deference but it's to teach children to respect adults.

I don't teach my children to 'respect adults'. I try to teach them to give respect to all people they meet, initially. And then to form their own opinion on if the person is deserving of their respect.

They're thoughtful and well mannered, thank you, but they won't be taught to blindly respect somebody on the basis they are older than they.

Great, SamThucker.

No wonder teachers have such a hard time.

Koala -- was trying to formulate a post and then saw yours. What you said. Thanks

Surely it's good to teach children that if there is someone who has a greater need for the seat that them it is polite to offer? It shouldn't be about artificial barriers set out by age.

I'll often offer a seat to a parent/child on the tube if they look like they are struggling and need if. Quite often I've found fhey decline. I took great exception to a child of no more than 3 demanding a seat from me. His mother ignored him & didn't tell him off for being rude. He was in a pushchair so was sitting down anyway!
I got offered a seat on the tube on my 27th birthday!!! It was a very polite teenager. I declined but told him thank you very much. I thought it was really postie behaviour and totally unexpected. He then started nudging his friends and telling them they should all be standing for my husband and I as we are older. His friends looked at him like he'd suggested they jump off the Eiffel tower!

Amber nectarine sit them both on your knee