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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

seats on public transport

245 replies

sassyandsixty · 01/06/2015 17:31

OK, I know I'm old-fashioned, but is it unreasonable to expect children to give up seats for older people these days? During half-term, a crowd of children rushed onto the train and grabbed seats that older people were aiming for. They then complained when asked (very politely) to give them up. Parents were around, but didn't even try to get their kids to stand - only gave us the evil eye. What is going on here?

OP posts:

keepitsimple0 · 03/06/2015 09:32

I'd like to think that would happen in the UK but not completely convinced.

I don't know about the rest of the UK, but in London I have always seen those who have walking/standing difficulties get a seat.

SugarplumKate · 03/06/2015 09:38

Yanbu, I expect my children from ages 8 to 15 to stand to let an older/pregnant/carrying baby/disabled etc person sit. However I have been told iabu a number of times on this board for my view.

chaletdays · 03/06/2015 09:57

"Every month we have this thread, and not once has someone explained why young people should stand for adults."

Eh yes, people have explained time and again why children should stand for older people.

keepitsimple0 · 03/06/2015 09:57

to stand to let an older/pregnant/carrying baby/disabled etc person sit. However I have been told iabu a number of times on this board for my view.

no one would say you are being unreasonable about the latter three.

keepitsimple0 · 03/06/2015 09:58

Eh yes, people have explained time and again why children should stand for older people.

I am all ears.

chaletdays · 03/06/2015 10:01

Just read this thread and the many other threads keep and you will see the explanations, including mine. I am not going over it all again because you either can't or won't read the explanations you say haven't been given.

bruffin · 03/06/2015 10:01

Elderly get reduced fare but have paid full fare for many years. Most pensioners will not have had free schooling i asume you mean uni. Even my generation very few went to uni ir even went to 6th form and my dad left school at 12 and my mum at 15.Never had free housing i dont know anyone who has.
My dc always gave up their seats it never did the any harm, and still do.

keepitsimple0 · 03/06/2015 10:05

Just read this thread and the many other threads keep and you will see the explanations, including mine. I am not going over it all again because you either can't or won't read the explanations you say haven't been given.

I listed all the reasons I have seen stated here in my post, and indicated I think all are ridiculous. I was hoping for a good reason.

keepitsimple0 · 03/06/2015 10:06

Elderly get reduced fare but have paid full fare for many years.

sounds like entitlement to me. They also got a ride those years, didn't they?

bruffin · 03/06/2015 10:12

Its not entitlement, they have given to tge system , your children have noy given anything to the system yet and with yourr atyitude i doubt they ever will.
.

chaletdays · 03/06/2015 10:13

The fact that you don't agree with the explanations simple doesn't mean that 'no one has explained'.

And your bitterness at the older generation is quite startling.

MyNightWithMaud · 03/06/2015 10:28

I too am of the generation that, as children, were taught to give up seats for adults.

These threads always get so heated because, on both sides, so many opinions are entrenched. Mostly, my sympathies are with the argument that children who are old enough to stand safely probably should stand for older people, pregnant women and so on, and am a bit perplexed when that (as it so often does) gets turned around to how dare you suggest that my toddler should stand!

I'm always taken aback by how often older people seem to be hate figures on MN, with the wealthiest few being taken as representative of all and so much resentment of pensions and the like (while other aspects such as living through the war, having to leave school at 14 etc are overlooked). Do we really want all retired people to be on the breadline, because that's what all the resentment seems to suggest?

chaletdays · 03/06/2015 10:33

It's a horrible begrudgery Mynight. I would often like to see posters such as silly be transported suddenly back to the 40s and 50s and realise just how hard life was in so many ways for the people who lived through those years. To hear them being harangued and slated by a generation where so many can take foreign travel, eating out, new clothes, plenty of food in the fridge, labour saving devices etc for granted is awful.
And this attitude of 'sod them. I don't care how old they are, they can bloody stand' is disgusting.

MythicalKings · 03/06/2015 10:34

It's time MN took a firm stance on ageism.

Mehitabel6 · 03/06/2015 10:42

I agree chaletdays. My mother is over 90yrs - it is obvious from a glance that she can't stand. Luckily she has always immediately been given a seat. People seem to be much kinder in RL than some of the attitudes on here.
Elderly people stood when they were children, it was the accepted thing, why can't they be helped now? When the children are elderly themselves they will get 'their turn' - unless everyone is completely selfish by then.

MyNightWithMaud · 03/06/2015 10:45

There was a flurry of activity on here a few months ago, when a few posters decided to take concerted action when (as so often) any older woman with whom a MNer had had some sort of minor altercation would be derided as a "bitter old hag" or "old biddy". I think there were supportive comments from MNHQ but don't know what's happened since.

People who want retired people to lose their supposed perks - pensions, bus passes, free TV licences - should be very careful what they wish for. This should not become a race to the bottom.

Mehitabel6 · 03/06/2015 10:45

Those who are bitter about older people will be old themselves one day! (The alternative is not good). I'm sure some people think they are Peter Pan!

Mehitabel6 · 03/06/2015 10:46

The flurry of activity ended with MNHQ telling people to report ageism posts.

VivaLeBeaver · 03/06/2015 10:47

I suppose there is a difference between older and elderly.

I wouldn't expect dd to stand for a fit healthy person in their 40s. I would expect her to stand for anyone who looked pregnant, elderly, wobbly or anyone who asked her to stand.

I don't think people are offended to be offered a seat. I asked a lady who looked like she was in her 60s if she wanted a seat and she declined, she didn't look offended. Obviously many people in their 60s will be fit and well and running marathons, etc. but some may have hip pain, etc and find standing a struggle. I can't tell by looking so will offer.

Lilymaid · 03/06/2015 10:53

I'm over 60 though look much younger and am rarely offered a seat on my daily tube journey on the Circle Line. When I am offered a seat it is usually by Polish workmen or students. Other young and middle aged men never offer seats.
Although I look hale and hearty I have advanced cancer (so am technically disabled) and could do with having a seat - and I recently was beaten to a seat by a young man who told me he needed to sit down as he had back ache. The other women nearby smiled at that!
Young children need to be seated (and it is often best on their parents laps to hold them securely). Older children should be prepared to stand like anyone else.
I give up my seat to pregnant women and obviously disabled.

Mehitabel6 · 03/06/2015 10:55

I am over 60 and I would decline a seat- in a friendly way. If I have been for a morning run I can certainly stand on a bus! I wouldn't be offended- I just wouldn't take it. I might in 20 yrs time.

WaddaLegend · 03/06/2015 10:58

Like others have said, I think it depends on the age of the child and the need of the adult. It's not an automTic thing and I think it shouldn't be assumed that a child should give up their seat, any able bodied person could give up their seat, I wouldn't think it fair for the elderly person to make a beeline for a child at the back of the bus without asking any adult nearer the front. A child may be smaller/younger but that doesn't make them less of a person and less entitled to a seat than an adult. That said I would always offer my seat if I thought someone needed it more and will be trying to set an example to my ds, that doesn't mean I would think it acceptable for someone to single him out in a bus full of other able bodied people.

OnlyLovers · 03/06/2015 10:59

You don't pay for a seat per se, you pay to travel on the bus.

I think kids should stand for adults out of politeness. I realise that's personal and not easy to argue in an objective way though.

WaddaLegend · 03/06/2015 11:02

That said rushing past people to grab a seat is rude for anyone of any age.

NickiFury · 03/06/2015 11:06

I live in London. It's very rare that my dc are not offered a seat when the tube is very busy. Luckily in RL even supposedly obnoxious Londoners seem to believe that children might need seats when it's busy and crowded. My dc are 8 and 12. I would never ask my dc to give up their seats for an able bodied adult, but would for the elderly and obviously disabled. I do get the invisible disability thing though, both my dc have autism and ds has quite severe hyper mobility so struggles to keep his balance. I've never had to ask yet though.

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