seats on public transport

[sassyandsixty]

OK, I know I'm old-fashioned, but is it unreasonable to expect children to give up seats for older people these days? During half-term, a crowd of children rushed onto the train and grabbed seats that older people were aiming for. They then complained when asked (very politely) to give them up. Parents were around, but didn't even try to get their kids to stand - only gave us the evil eye. What is going on here?

Whether - when no seats are booked though, why does an older person have more rights to it than a younger one? More/less able to stand, fine - but not sure why a child has less right to a seat than an adult.

It always used to be thought that because children under 14 paid a lower fare they should give up their seat to a full-fare paying adult (not tiny children but say 10+) but I am not sure if half fares still exist, perhaps someone can enlighten me? (Am somewhat old.)
And surely any well-bought up child over about 8 would give up their seat to an elderly, disabled or pregnant person?
I would not expect someone to give up a seat for me but I would be extremely put out if a crowd of children rushed past me and grabbed all the available seats. That's just plain rude.

Lisa - so if someone else was struggling you wouldn't encourage them to give up their seat? Would you give up yours?

As an under 5 is free they should always be on lap if train is crowded IMO.

When we were young we would've squashed up to get 3 in 2 seats or similar when under about 12.

I think children over 7 can stand, but I'd only make them give up their seat for someone who actually needed it.

Why is it you see threads on here with people agonising over which car seat the PIL are using to transport our precious DC in, in their car, yet on public transport some people think DC of car seat size should be surfing in the aisle?

Surely it's safer for DC to be sitting down on a moving bus or train, and as adults, we take the extra risk to keep DC safe. Surely that's human instinct?

That's silly Shakira. No-one has said v young children should stand.

cogitosum, even if said lap belongs to their heavily pregnant mother? I've had this happen to me on the bus.

As a teenager, I had an able bodied 50ish woman have a go at me for not giving up my seat to her. I was in the middle of a very obvious asthma attack (took my inhaler, audibly wheezing). I just ignored her.

Sangria, children requiring a car seat by law can be up to 12 years old. We are expected to make a child's safety the priority every time we get in the car yet doing the same on public transport is considered bad manners?

"It's manners, of course: respecting seniority"

It isn't though, because we don't have strict hierarchical deference to seniority in this country. We have also got rid of things like the assumption that you must retire at 60.

"It always used to be thought that because children under 14 paid a lower fare they should give up their seat to a full-fare paying adult (not tiny children but say 10+) but I am not sure if half fares still exist, perhaps someone can enlighten me? "

They do, but it's irrelevant given for instance that I don't expect to be turfed out of my seat for someone with a £2k season ticket, or someone with a more expensive walk-up ticket rather than my £5 Advance, or someone with a Jobcentre discount card.

Generally railway pricing reflects the cost of the alternatives - you might pay £10 for one person to travel rather than £20 on petrol, but if you have a family of four there's no way you'd pay £40 on train tickets when driving is much cheaper.

i was a bit embarrassed when someone in their 20's offered me their seat on a crowded tube. I am 57 and very able bodied, I suddenly felt very old.

I have given up my seat to someone struggling with young children though as it is hard to manage everything if you are standing up.

First come first seated apart from disabled or fragile.

It's just good manners for a teenager, especially, to offer an adult a seat. Plus they pay half fare.
What is wrong with teaching younger people to show some courtesy? It's not about being able bodied or not.

Drank sangria has the point, imo

In your case if they (or anyone able bodied) grabbed the seats practically from under the bottoms of the eelderly, yanbu.

But children are not less entitled to sit than able bodied adults. Little ones need to sit so as not to hurt themselves (say under 5).

Also running to grab seats is always out of order.

The problem with saying DCs should give up seats for 'disabled people' is that most disabilities are invisible.

Why do younger people always have to show courtesy to older people? When I was 17 I broke my leg and was on crutches. .. got on a very packed bis and snagged the last seat until an older woman started tutting and saying very loudly to everyone around her that young people should give up their seat... I was the only person you could consider young on the bus. She was able to stand perfectly yet expected me to hobble on my crutches. .. but of course she automatically required my.respect bease we should respect our elders.

I always give up my seat to those that need it... I just can't stand the entitlement that some of the older generation have.

I offered my tube seat to a heavily pregnant woman today. She refused (both times!)
I then felt I was getting dirty looks from those around me :o I only sat down to get out of people's way!

Just like wth adults, children have hidden disabilities and require that seat. It's not them being rude, disresptful, lazy parenting etc. Just because of medical needs, requires a seat.
I never judge someone sitting on public transport regardless of age because you really, really don't know..
Of course some are rude etc

I will always give up my seat for someone less able or older (I'm nearly 50, so older would be OAP/60+ ish). If ds(11) is with me he will give up his seat too, but probably for someone younger than I would. Most people i know, including dh, routinely give up seats too and I still see people doing it as if second nature.

I still believe in teaching dc manners. Letting an able bodied child sit while a mature adult stands is still rude IMO. I would be horrified if he started all the nonsence about older people being entitled. Guess its the way I was raised.

''It always surprises me that I can sit and watch 3-9 year-olds spend hours swinging, hanging, clambering, generally holding on at the local playground and then come on MN to find that it is unreasonable to expect NT 3-9 year-olds to hold on and not be flung around through occasional swings and lurches during, say, a 30 minute journey.''

Have you looked at the knees and elbows of those 3-9 year olds? Go into any primary classroom and ask for a show of hands for children who have fallen/tripped /banged their head in the last 7 days. Then ask a group of healthy 40-60 year olds the same thing!

My DDs are 3 (almost 4) and 6. We squish up so we don't take up much space on public transport, but I would not ask or expect them to stand automatically for an adult. If someone obviously needed a seat, or asked for it, then I would get them to stand. But IME it's the other way round- adults will often offer their seats to the girls if it's busy. So not everyone follows the 'respect your elders' philosophy.

weallhavewings me and my 2 sisters would always cram into 2 seats with my mum when we were little and we're told to give up our seats so if the comment about the way you were raised was aimed at me it was competely off the mark... I've just discovered the older I get that there is a large portion of the older generation that automatically expect respect based purely on age. I actually believe in mutual respect to all people but like I said it would be mutual....maybe it's where I live where certain older people have little respect for me but expect me to respect them.

cogitosum, even if said lap belongs to their heavily pregnant mother? I've had this happen to me on the bus.