seats on public transport

[sassyandsixty]

OK, I know I'm old-fashioned, but is it unreasonable to expect children to give up seats for older people these days? During half-term, a crowd of children rushed onto the train and grabbed seats that older people were aiming for. They then complained when asked (very politely) to give them up. Parents were around, but didn't even try to get their kids to stand - only gave us the evil eye. What is going on here?

[CeliaLytton]

Thanks Sangria, that would have been appreciated! I actually didn't mind standing but felt bad for some others who really looked like they needed to sit down, but wasn't about to move DC. As I say, if if had been quieter or I had a spare hand, I would have made him stand if someone needed the seat more and if was safe for him to do so.

[Jobless123]

There really is no logic behind children offering their seat to an adult, given that most adults are perfectly capable of standing on public transport. It's just as logical for a businessman to give up his seat as it is for a 10 year old, perhaps better for the businessman to do so, as things like handles tend to be at adult heights.

[Mermaidhair]

My ds will always offer his seat to a lady of any age. It's how my late dh and I bought him up. I am nearly 40 and I will always offer my seat to anyone who clearly needs it more than me no matter the age. My dd will will do the same.

[sandgrown]

Same here Mermaid. When DC were young they sat on my knee or stood in front of my legs . When they were older they stood up if someone needed the seat . Our buses used to have a sign saying children should give up their seat for full fare paying adults.

[Mehitabel6]

It is why children have a half fare. Why would they have half fares if they had priority on a full seat?
It was always on the understanding that they sat on a lap, or stood up, if necessary.

[Mehitabel6]

I remember signs saying that.

[Mehitabel6]

Could someone explain half fares if that is not the case? Why have them if they count the same as an adult?

[Mehitabel6]

And under 5s are free because they don't need a seat if it is busy- they sit on laps. If they are all to have their own seats, at all times, prices should reflect it with one price for all.

[TiggieBoo]

I don't know why this half fare argument keeps popping up, it's just absurd. All adults pay full price, half of them have to stand on a bus. Should we start a riot? My travelcard works out at about half price of individual fares, should I stand? What about all those OAPs with free travel, should they stand? Half price fares for children are either a council subsidy, one of those perks for being a child, or a bus company marketing strategy, to get the full paying parents on the bus. Nothing to do with seat entitlement.

[sashh]

why on earth should children stand up for able bodied adults?

Because they are traveling at half fare on the understanding they do this. There used to be signs on the bus explaining this.

[SumThucker]

Kids pay half price for most things though, like entrance fees.
An adult has more chance of keeping themselves steady on a moving vehicle, so I wouldn't be turfing my DC out of their seat to make way for an able adult.
And yes, I was always made to stand when I was a child, for any adult.

[sassyandsixty]

We're talking over-60s here - and the kids were 10-ish plus and better able to stand. I just felt it's common courtesy to give seats to older people (and, yes, less able to stand). We've all paid for the journey, not the seat - there are never enough to go around anyway. We were brought up to give up seats to those older than us when we were young, so I suppose it's a bit of a shock not to have the same courtesy returned when we get a bit long in the tooth. We all have to get old and it's nothing to be ashamed of being offered a seat. I always accept if offered and shower the person with thanks. I fear there's a generation of kids being brought up to think only of their own needs...

[AmberNectarine]

What Tiggie said.

[SumThucker]

I'd personally stand, sassy to offer my seat, after being raised to.
There are too many different scenarios to give a definitive answer, I believe. The bus ride from my town to the next biggest one is 7.5 miles, and some of the roads are on a 40mph stretch, another part is a really busy junction, and some of the bus drivers drive at break-neck speeds around corners.
I wouldn't be making my 10 year old stand for that journey if she had obtained a seat.
A more sedate train ride, probably yes.

[MagicMojito]

No I wouldn't make DC stand.

I don't get the entitlement of adults who expect their need to sit down automatically trumps the person who is already sat down because of their DOB

Its the same rules for everyone. You get on, find a seat, if anybody else gets on with a greater need for that seat you stand up and offer it, regardless of age.

I'd expect DC to stand for:
Elderly people
Disabled people
Pregnant woman
Smaller children

DD is still small enough to sit in my lap anyway and dd2 is still in a pram so its not an issue yet, so this is all hypothetical!

[Jobless123]

Children get half fares because they are less able to pay. Same as students get discounts, or the elderly. Also because they often travel with their families in a group and it would be impossible if the whole family paid full fare - people would drive or take taxis.

[MythicalKings]

Its the same rules for everyone. You get on, find a seat, if anybody else gets on with a greater need for that seat you stand up and offer it, regardless of age.

In which case DCs should pay full fare.

[Jobless123]

"In which case DCs should pay full fare"

And old people shouldn't get free bus passes.

[Gottagetmoving]

Old people get free bus passes in recognition of the years they have paid fares and because many old people are on a very limited income.

As for Adults been given a seat by a younger person,., It is not about 'entitelment' It is about showing courtesy which I should think is something you would be proud for your children to show.

[balletnotlacrosse]

YANBU. It is rude enough of 10 year olds not to stand up and offer aged sixty plus passengers a seat. But to actually get on the train at the same time as them and grab the remaining seats is incredibly bad mannered, as is to complain when this is pointed out and they are asked to stand.

Their parents are not doing a great job at raising decent considerate citizens.

[Becauseicannes]

Yabu. I often will give my seat to young children as they have shorter legs and would be more prone to be thrown forward when there is a harsh brake which happens often. I would not expect children to get up for adults unless the adult in question was unable to stand.

[balletnotlacrosse]

What about older people Because who are able to stand but less steady on their feet than, say, a twelve year old or who find standing more tiring than a young person.
Would you not expect a child to stand for anyone over a certain age?

When I was a child, if a young person didn't stand up themselves to offer an oldish person a seat (or even a middle aged woman) the bus conductor came along and bloody ordered them to.

[MagicMojito]

You pay for transport from pointA to pointB, not for a seat.

The amount of fare you pay is irrelevant. I'd never dream of telling the elderlyelderly person that they are not entitled to a seat because they haven't paid the same as me.

If your able bodied, you stand for those less able. Regardless of age.

[DancingDinosaur]

My dc would stand for people her were frail / had a disability and needed a seat. They wouldn't stand for a perfectly healthy adult who is able to stand.

[chaletdays]

An awful lot of parents nowadays seem to be more interested in teaching children about their rights and entitlements than about consideration and a bit of selflessness.
As a result they're raising self entitled brats who never think of anyone but themselves. Sad really.