AIBU to “insist” on communicating with my wife?

[TheOtherSide]

Times are stressful at the moment. Sprog 1, 3.5yo & sprog 2 1yo. My wife & I are always arguing. Any topic is fair game from what to watch on TV through to Money, shopping, weather etc etc.

My Wife has found a new coping strategy – its called “Just ignore him”, state your feelings & walk away. Instead of arguing, ignore him and spend your time productively browsing the web or playing computer games. This irritates me, resolves nothing and has been going on for months.

We have blazing rows and either....

1. I follow her around the house and attempt to communicate – I'm then accused of being a stalker.

1. We ignore & avoid each other – about a week later she pretends that everything is ok and nothing happened.

I'm working away from home during the week for the next couple of months. I got home on Thursday night about 9pm and tried to engage her in non controversial casual conversation, e.g. check out this funny clip of a toddler on FB. She tried to ignore me and then had a massive go at me for wasting her time and went to bed.

I have suggested “Marriage Guidance” but this was poo poohed as she felt that last time the councillor sided with me. I arranged a course of sessions with a different organisation, and hence different counsellor, but she still refused to go. She then suggested that I attend on my own.

Key points...

a. I can't see how the marriage is going to survive/progress if we can't communicate.
b. If we didn't have kids then i'd gladly walk/run right now but we do so I will not.
c. I/we need to find a way forward

...any ideas?

Thanks.

No idea what happened with my multi-posts last night. I only posted once. I've asked MN to delete the duplicates. I've also no idea why another poster posted the exact same as me

Hi OP - I'm sitting here with my DH and mum who have asked me what's going on in the world of mumsnet today. I've said there's a dad asking about how he can makes things better with his home life.

I've said you have two very young children, both working 4 days a week with you working away, and living in a fixer upper home that needs work.

The three of us are all pulling pained faces for you. As a couple, you both have so much on your plate that it is no wonder you are at breaking point; so many other couples in your place would be and are the same, and we've (DH, mum and I) been there too. There is no downtime for either of you is there, and likely feels like there won't be for some time. DH and I have been through it and are out of the other side.

I would imagine that your wife feels some resentment that you get to be away with work, as mad as it sounds, as she goes to work and still has to do the evening with the children with no help. When you have the children, she's there is the evening (or whatever part of the day it is) so it is shared. At least when you are away with work, you do get some switch off time in the hotel room and a full night's sleep (although I appreciate mostly you would rather be at home; business travel sounds great but usually isn't so great in reality). And maybe you don't 'get' that. But I am speculating.

I think telling her how much you love her and hugging her often helps keep a bond, even when she seems grouchy (sometimes this is when you need a hug more than ever).

So many families are in the 'sheer hard work zone' when you have toddlers, work, bills, and have an abundance of DIY. You do get through it but you have a few years to go. Getting the young ones to school ends a phase and even though life seems hard in other ways, the toddler phase was exhausting IMO (disclaimer, not had teens yet). Be kind to yourselves and to yourselves as a couple. DH and I managed to go away for 4 days and it was amazing to become a 'couple' again; as 'a start', if you can I really recommend it.

I wish you both the very best.

Well. That tweaked a few nerves and brought the nasties out to play. Perhaps you should all put the kettle on and start relaxing a tad. It's a nice afternoon. Me? I'm having a coffee and some non emoticon cake. Cheers.

In the absence of a cooperative wife

she's terminally miserable

...I'm bored trying to communicate with her

she has seen a Dr and has received a prescription for anti-deprecients revealed late on the thread, almost as an afterthought, followed by

If I can get her to pull her head out of her arse and start communicating and functioning like a normal human being

These comments didn't do the OP any favours.

In you initial OP, I read it as her using the silent treatment which is shitty in itself. Reading your subsequent updates it's hard to see if you are just being defensive or if perhaps you aren't listening so much as talking at her.

If you think it's the silent treatment to punish and get her own way then I feel for you because anyone who does that is a wanker IMO.

But only you know your behaviour and if she's depressed well that just adds another layer. Have you asked her? Actually said 'why do you walk away and ignore me? Do you think I'm not listening or are you just not willing to do this? If it's the first tell me and talk, I will listen'. But actually do listen, not just say it.

I know a couple in which the silent treatment is used as a punishment for one to shut the other down. Likewise I know a couple where the man walks away in frustration because the wife just keeps talking at him, not to him.

Christ. That was a cracker from The Dave Lee Travis book of humour.

The fact that your wife has 2 very young children, works 4 days a week and has a diagnosis of depression suggests that she needs support and not someone following her around and berating her.

You also seen to not like her mother - interesting.

And for the finale you post on a forum that she uses.

Nasty.

OP, how about showing her you love her instead of starting silly arguments about nothing and pursuing her for a reaction?

How about a little love and understanding? Because her depression isn't just going to go away because you tell her to stop feeling sorry for herself.

How about you start behaving like a grown up and stop blaming her for everything that's wrong. Take some blame yourself (I'm sure there is blame on both sides).

If you loved your wife and valued your family, you'd be doing everything you can to help her get better. But you just seem to be feeling sorry for yourself.

And I'd say all of the above whether you were male or female.

YouTheCat

he has tried showing her love, tried talking to her in a non confrontational manner, tried to go out with her to get away from the children etc.

and he hasn't blamed her for everything he has done the above, tried talking to her and sought counselling which she refused to go back to because she felt the counsellor was on his side, and refused to see another counsellor with him. the following her into rooms in which she says is stalking i think most would do if the other person had unloaded loads of stuff on them on more than one occasion and had just walked away.

i personally think OP's posts and attitude went down when he was being put into a corner and people were just seemingly assuming it was his fault and he was doing certain things because he was a man.

There was, actually, a female poster a couple of years ago who complained that her H ignored her when she tried to interest him in shit she'd downloaded off the internet. As the thread developed it was clear she wasn't abusive but she was fucking annoying - she talked about spending 'half an hour loving-teasing him to look' when the poor sod was on his phone and she'd downloaded one of those appalling 'Treat your wifey like the princess she is' articles... She got called on it. She was a childish twat but not a bully like this dickhead of an OP.

I have read the OP's posts. None of them sounded particularly loving, especially the bit about pulling her head out of her arse.

That isn't loving.

Counselling isn't for everyone. And it can often appear like the counsellor favours one of the couple which doesn't help.

Following doggedly sounds like it's bordering on abusive to me.

happymeercat the OP hasn't mentioned loving his wife. He has said a few times if it didn't mean not living with his DC he'd be off long ago. Not sure where the love is there?

Also he is very dismissive about her PND but does state these problems started around the birth of baby 2. So of course her PND is central to her problems.

OP insists that they are equally stressed with work and childcare etc, but he now works away 4 days a week.

I don't think love or like or respect has been mentioned at all.

If the OP had posted 'my wife has been diagnosed with depression, we both work really hard and have 2 small children. She just won't engage with me any more. I love her and want to make the situation better...' then I think a different response would have been seen.

I could be completely off the mark here although I doubt I am but I would bet that the OP is not as wholesome as he makes out. His posts about his wife are hostile and sometimes completly nasty. I reckon your wife knows you don't love her but in your twisted way you stay there,tormenting her by following her to continue arguments, by showing her bloody videos when she is exhausted, by dismissing her very serious illness. And by posting here. Her safe place where she can be as anonymous as she likes. You've let your presence be known so you can send a shockwave through her only escape. Make her feel unsafe and alone.
And yes I would say the exact same thing to a woman.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that what my exh would have posted and what I would have posted 6 years ago would have been poles apart. He most certainly wouldn't have mentioned his alcoholism or emotional and physical abuse and would have come across as very hard done to.

And what, crispy said. That would have got a totally different response.

Got it in one Fay I agree.

With a husband like you, OP, I would have been divorced. My DH supported me through PND and it looked a lot different from what you are describing.

You expect her to be better, miraculously cured from depression because she is now on tablets. You have no idea.
You don't seem remotely interested in finding out what is really going on in her head.

I'd love to hear her side of the story, and I hope has a thread going herself about her situation. She'll get more support here than she'll (ever) get from you.

In your first post I felt sorry for you. But the anger wasn't far behind and I can feel the anger and contempt coming through in subsequent posts.

It sounds like you loathe your wife and have no respect for her at all. If also sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder about something that hasn't happened yet (custody arrangements after splitting) and as if your behaviour is justified in some way due to this.

It actually feels as if you want to stay with your wife to be almost spiteful rather than to try and recover your relationship.

I see no happy end in sight for either of you unless you drop the shoulder chip and the righteous anger and then see what can be salvaged.

Am not suggesting you're the only one behaving badly here, but as you've asked for advice, I'm directing it at you. Your anger, belittling of your wife, ignoring her mental illness, and deliberately coming jnto the place she seeks refuge, not to mention the aggressiveness of following her around the house forcing her to have an argument... Well, hardly the behaviour of a loving and respectful man.

How the OP could leave his wife's depression out of the first post, as if it is not only NOT relevent, but probably central, to this makes me think that he has no understanding or sympathy for his DW and her PND.

OP have you thought about supporting your wife through her depression?

If you're anything like my xh, then what you describe as her dumping and then running would have gone like this:-

I'm already walking on eggshells because I can't judge his moods, but I need to know if a bill has been paid because it's worrying me, so I go to him, he seems not to be currently angry, so I ask if he's paid the bill or not.

His response is to see it as an accusation of incompetence. He starts ranting about why I need to know, what business it is of mine, how dare I question him. I know there's no reasoning with him, I'm terrified, so I nod and go to the bedroom.

He screams that I'm not to say things like that and then just walk away, he runs after me, screams in my face, punches the wall next to me. I'm in tears and clearly terrified. He screams at me for crying. What have I got to cry about? I'm the one dumping on him and then refusing to talk.

I keep trying to get away. I manage to get to the bathroom. I lock the door. I feel panicked and scared and there's no way out. I don't have my phone. He kicks the door in.

I push past him and go back to the bedroom. He follows me saying that I pushed him. How dare I push him. I'm unhinged. I'm abusive. There's something really wrong with me.

This happened. This was my life with xh. He would have described it as the op has. He also followed me to MN and started posts. It was all about taking away something that helped me.

The op could be nothing like my xh, but he clearly doesn't love his wife, doesn't support her, doesn't engage with her effectively, doesn't respect her, and treats her illness as something she should just snap out of.

This thread is why men should never ask for advice on the totally unbiased Mumsnet.

Or why anyone asking about their partners acute withdrawal and diagnosed depression shouldn't suggest it's just about them getting their head out of their arse.
One of those things.

I'm with you, Pag.

Op has stated his wife has depression and he struggles to talk to her without arguing. He left out the depression and wanted permission to carry on trying to force her to interact with him regardless of her emotional state. He's been dismissive of her and her illness. He's not asked how he can help her deal with her depression.

I know that my lovely dh would never ever speak about me the way the op has. I've already posted what my xh would have said.