AIBU to “insist” on communicating with my wife?

[TheOtherSide]

Times are stressful at the moment. Sprog 1, 3.5yo & sprog 2 1yo. My wife & I are always arguing. Any topic is fair game from what to watch on TV through to Money, shopping, weather etc etc.

My Wife has found a new coping strategy – its called “Just ignore him”, state your feelings & walk away. Instead of arguing, ignore him and spend your time productively browsing the web or playing computer games. This irritates me, resolves nothing and has been going on for months.

We have blazing rows and either....

1. I follow her around the house and attempt to communicate – I'm then accused of being a stalker.

1. We ignore & avoid each other – about a week later she pretends that everything is ok and nothing happened.

I'm working away from home during the week for the next couple of months. I got home on Thursday night about 9pm and tried to engage her in non controversial casual conversation, e.g. check out this funny clip of a toddler on FB. She tried to ignore me and then had a massive go at me for wasting her time and went to bed.

I have suggested “Marriage Guidance” but this was poo poohed as she felt that last time the councillor sided with me. I arranged a course of sessions with a different organisation, and hence different counsellor, but she still refused to go. She then suggested that I attend on my own.

Key points...

a. I can't see how the marriage is going to survive/progress if we can't communicate.
b. If we didn't have kids then i'd gladly walk/run right now but we do so I will not.
c. I/we need to find a way forward

...any ideas?

Thanks.

I would say exactly the same were the OP a woman, and she had left out the depression bit until asked several times.

Hmmm.

The thing that stuck out for me was the following around trying to converse thing.

If I have a problem with my DW, I absolutely can't and shouldn't follow her around trying to talk about it. This is because when I get annoyed, I also get a bee in my bonnet about being right and needing to prove the other person wrong, and will become more and more defensive, unreasonable and outright nasty as the conversation goes on, which NEVER ends in a good place for either of us.

I do sense the same pattern with you.

If I am angry, my wife and I have agreed that I take 45 minutes or so, spend time alone, take stock of the situation, and then - once enough distance from the situation has been established so that I can look at it objectively - talk about it without recriminations, admitting fault where it's due and acknowledging each other's side of the story.

In short, if you have a bone to pick, you absolutely cannot try to get all of your answers in the moment. You will both be too angry to do that. You need to wait and then discuss it when you both have some distance from the problem.

It's pretty sad actually.
The situation described is desperate but in trying to point score about 'omg mumsnet is so anti man' posters are queueing up to validate the idea that he should just keep on doing stuff which is clearly unproductive.

If my DH had decided that I just needed to get my head out my arse I would probably be dead now.

Depression is a terribly hard thing to deal with if you want to. Without wanting to, this family is fucked

I don't really have any advice, but I feel like I can really understand both sides. I was once feeling the same way your wife seems to be feeling. I was so overtired and sad that everything my dh did just pissed me off! All day I'd be waiting for him to come home, yet when he did I would just wish he'd go back to work. I was stuck between wanting someone to care for me and wanting to be left well alone and it was awful and confusing.

Even though I was the one being unkind, if he reacted to my behaviour by argueing I just wanted to get away, be alone...even though I didn't really want to be alone it was preferable to argueing. He hated this and he couldn't understand why I needed some space, it would really frustrate him and he would follow me around asking "why?!" Which just made me feel backed into a corner. During this I felt no love for him, I wanted out on the relationship just because I felt so miserable all the time.

What really worked was when one day he just seemed to change, he became the most loving, caring person. Running around after me, doing more than his fair share, ignoring my behaviour and just being the kindest person he could be. I didn't deserve this treatment after the way I'd been treating him but just having someone give in to all my demands (which were really just cries for help) he even used to help me get ready for bed! Which just seems ridiculous but being cared for like a child really just helped me get out of the dark place I was in.

But on the other hand, I understand how bloody hard that must've been for him. To do all the work, have no appreciation given and still manage to be nothing but kind to someone who is being totally unreasonable takes a lot of strength. He must've been feeling as miserable as me, there was no joy in our relationship, yet he managed to be everything I needed. There were days where he had obviously had enough and we would go back to square one, but I can't blame him for that at all. I don't know if I would have the patience to act in the way he did, but now our relationship is stronger than ever. It was like we were dating again, we rediscovered the joy.

I'm not saying this will work for you and your dw because your situations might be totally different, but I feel like your dw is crying out for help and I feel like you need the support behind you to give it to her. It's not an easy ride for anyone but if you manage to put your own frustrations aside to be what she needs then I commend you. Good luck, OP. I'm thinking of you both

My instinct tells me there is seething resentment in your Wife. A small insight into women: (and yes, I'm generalising and trusting that fellow Mners won't lambast me) We really do expect you to know what we are thinking and to realise why we are upset, even if we don't tell you. We think it's so blindingly obvious as to what is wrong, that we can't actually believe that you can't see it. We will rant and cry to our friends and then still not tell you. Yes, unresaonable, and yes some of us still do it.

She is tired ( definitely), fed up (very probably) , felling trapped (likely), unsexy (likely), abandoned (probably), jealous of your freedom (definitely), and in mourning for the freedom she and you as a couple used to have.

So, in these situations, as much as I'm a huge fan of talking, actions will speak louder than words. Without saying 'look, I'm doing this for you ' (red rag to a bull!!) , just get on and do some things. Send her txt messages out of the blue to say how beautiful she looked this morning. Help the kids to make her a picture, frame it and say you did it together to show mummy how much you all love her. Tidy up the kids bedrooms. Choose a recipe, take the kids to the supermarket with you to buy the ingredients and cook a meal en famille while she chills at home. Even if it's only spag Bol, the bigger ones can chop mushrooms and tomoaoes and mix the garlic butter for garlic bread. Make sure you tidy the kitchen (to her standard) Use a tablecloth. Pour her a glass of red. Get the bigger ones to grate Parmesan over her dinner and the Middle one to put a napkin (kitchen roll!) on her lap.
Tiny thoughtful things.
Think about all of those jobs around the house you haven't done. Still. Start to do them. It's really, really hard for someone to ignore you if you're being nice.
Make this behaviour a part of your lives together as a permanent fixture. She will start to thaw and then you can encourage her to talk and you to listen to what's on her mind. Be patient. If you love her she's worth the effort.
Lots and lots of small, kind actions to show here you care and that you are all in it together. It's the ultimate romantic gesture, and when all's said and done marriage is all about love isn't it ?

You can take me out of your weird generalisation.

I'm not a FemBot. I've never expected anyone to read my mind.

I'm sorry but your post actually makes me nauseous.

What amazing posts, Thoughtfulduck and Asbeee!

Being there only for the children is really not going to be helping her state of mind. She will know she is playing second fiddle in her own home.

Depression is a nasty insidious illness that robs you of so much. She needs someone who wants her for her not just because of who she is in relation to another human being. She will feel valueless as a result.

Depression is not a problem you can solve by constantly worrying at it.

Depression is not an illness that can be fixed quickly with some tablets. The fix is going to need long term changes. You will need to address it in a different way. Finding some compassion for her situation would be a good start.

FWIW you sound like you genuinely want to fix your marriage but if you don't value her for her you will only feed her sense of worthlessness. I speak from experience - I am bipolar and sometimes the only reason I have made it through the dark times is that my DH (for reasons I cannot fathom) thinks the sun shines out of my arse and my value to him is not only in relation to our children but because I am me. Our children have increased my value.

I really hope you both find a way through this that makes you both happy. Because you are here you obviously want to make sense of it all and find a way through it.

"Fed up" - try suffering from MH issue!

This thread is jam packed full of the most ignorant, man-pleasing bullshit. I'm rather shocked actually that in this day and age there are still people who BELIEVE some of this shit. boggle

I've seen rather a lot of ignorant, man-hating bullshit on this thread too, Turn. That's MN for you.

So, being sent text messages out of the blue telling you you're beautiful is a cure for depression asbeee? Ridiculous.

I've been put off spag bol and red wine for life.

MN is possibly the only place on the internet where women are prioritized over men. That's the best thing about it. Pretty much everywhere else, we are told that women need to please men, allow them sex, concentrate on looking attractive and that if there is a problem within the relationship, the woman needs to change her behaviour.
This is why you get abusive pricks like this man thinking that he has the right to force his wife to obey him - to the extent of being willing to fake a laugh at some stupid viral video just because he wants her to engage with him, despite the fact that she is exhausted and unwell.
The MN culture of believing women and prioritizing them and their needs may not be perfect, but while everyone everywhere else still insists that men come first, MN is an essential resource.

Absolutely SGB.

One possibility (and forgive me if it's been raised before) is that she might desperately need some time alone. If so, this could be useful: thegoodretreatguide.com/.

It's the same old usual story - WAH wah, why do you all hate men? WAH wah wah. Just fuck off to any of the billion other sites that condone this sort of fucked up thinking and stop fucking moaning when someone says something seen as "man hating". It's boring and inaccurate.

I do wonder if those claiming we're all man haters are reading the same thread as me, or if they have a really low view of men

Nice men would never state that their ill wives need to pull their heads out of their arses, even if goaded to by strangers (?!) because nice men respect their wives and are concerned for them.

Why do people have kids so close together if it means they can't cope? People do have a choice. If you shoes to bump one out that close together you can't complain that it's hard work you just have to time manage and get on with it

How would you know you couldn't cope with two? Surely that's something you could only possibly know with hindsight.

'Bump one out'?

Wtf?

You sound...intelligent.

Please read and think about the posts from Thoughtfulduck and adhere.

Damon autocorrect! Ashbee not adhere

What is it with all these sad people lately who insist that women on MN are treating men oh so differently?? They try to derail every single thread in some desperate attempt to attack women and please the man who is posting. It is nauseating, and I doubt very much there are men in any men's forum ANYWHERE jumping to women's defence the way some deluded people do here wrt men! The OP sounds like a bully to his depressed wife, and no amount of man pleasing by some on here will change that.

Applauds wildly for Sunset.

Exactly. Disagreeing with a man does not equal man-hating.