AIBU to “insist” on communicating with my wife?

[TheOtherSide]

Times are stressful at the moment. Sprog 1, 3.5yo & sprog 2 1yo. My wife & I are always arguing. Any topic is fair game from what to watch on TV through to Money, shopping, weather etc etc.

My Wife has found a new coping strategy – its called “Just ignore him”, state your feelings & walk away. Instead of arguing, ignore him and spend your time productively browsing the web or playing computer games. This irritates me, resolves nothing and has been going on for months.

We have blazing rows and either....

1. I follow her around the house and attempt to communicate – I'm then accused of being a stalker.
   

1. We ignore & avoid each other – about a week later she pretends that everything is ok and nothing happened.
   

I'm working away from home during the week for the next couple of months. I got home on Thursday night about 9pm and tried to engage her in non controversial casual conversation, e.g. check out this funny clip of a toddler on FB. She tried to ignore me and then had a massive go at me for wasting her time and went to bed.

I have suggested “Marriage Guidance” but this was poo poohed as she felt that last time the councillor sided with me. I arranged a course of sessions with a different organisation, and hence different counsellor, but she still refused to go. She then suggested that I attend on my own.

Key points...

a. I can't see how the marriage is going to survive/progress if we can't communicate.
b. If we didn't have kids then i'd gladly walk/run right now but we do so I will not.
c. I/we need to find a way forward

...any ideas?

Thanks.

[Heckler]

You were doing ok until the " man haters" bit.

I've not seen anything on here about hating men.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

Depression + unpaid work + 'comedy' guilt trip about the toddler on the table.
Can't imagine why she felt less than thrilled.

[HoldYerWhist]

Man haters?

Ffs. You've learned nothing from this thread.

Your poor wife.

[SolidGoldBrass]

So she's been looking after the kids and working from home all day, you come in with a reeking kebab and start pestering her to look at stupid viral videos - and you wonder why she isn't pleased?
Particularly given that an awful lot of people would have interpreted your insistence on showing the clip you described, in the circumstances you describe, as another dig at her?

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Man haters :o

I love it how women who think most men are great, and point out that shitty behaviour is the trait of an arsehole and not a man, are the ones who hate men :)

The logic is... Well... Crap, isn't it.

I love men. Your issue is not that you have a penis, it's how you treat your ill wife.

The fact that you interrupted her work to play the stupid video makes it even worse. You have no respect for her job either.

[Inkanta]

I think you need to be kinder and more supportive to your wife rather than starting irritating conversations with her. She has an awful lot to do whilist you are away working - so when you come back home show her some respect, help with the kids and enable her have a break.

[YouTheCat]

If she could merrily talk to you about it all them she wouldn't need the counselling so much. She can't right now. She's going to need time and understanding to get better.

Have you asked her what you can do to help, in a genuine way with no hidden agenda? If she won't engage, write her a letter and tell her you'll do anything to help her get better.

And quit with the man hating shite. I've been through an abusive relationship. I still don't hate men.

[AlternativeTentacles]

'unpaid'
'manhaters'
'engines'

These three words speak volumes to your attitude to women. No wonder your wife is depressed.

[WowProjectingMuch]

TheOtherSide

I'm not sure why you are getting a slating for that update. I think it was a gracious reply. You have taken on the avalanche of very harsh criticism - some which you WOULDNT have got had you been female.

You have admitted that you underestimated the effect of her depression and that you need specialist help. That's good.

You only addressed your man haters to 'the man haters' - again, that's looks perfectly reasonable to me. It looks like The other posters who replied to your update think you called the whole of Mumsnet 'man haters'.


Hopefully you and your wife will be able to sort something now that you are aware of the importance of her depression.

Good luck

[CocktailQueen]

God, if this was a woman posting then she'd have got very different answers.

OP, it sounds as thought you're trying hard to fix things in your marriage. Your dw isn't trying at all. No idea why, as we're on the internet, but if you've suggested counselling, tried talking to her, etc., and are sure that you do equal parenting and looking after the house etc., then maybe it's time to cut your losses and leave. Doesn't sound like any of you are getting anything from this - you, your wife, or your dc.

[whereismagic]

TheOtherSide, you clearly have a boy! It was our standard praise, "you've been a very useful engine", when our son was into Thomas the tank engine. I am sorry you got so much abuse on this thread for a very reasonable question. I still think that for a more balanced view and support you should try posting on pistonheads general chat forum. Good luck!

[Inkanta]

Not sure if the wife is depressed and needs counselling myself. I think her days are hard work and stressful and she's not getting any down time.

I think you could help by doing equal parenting and communicating on an equal level. If you communicate in a caring and respectful way - showing appreciation and gratitude for all her efforts whilst you're away, I think that will be progress.

[HoldYerWhist]

She was diagnosed with depression and prescribed anti-d's.

[MrBusterIPresume]

So let me get this straight from your scene-setting, OP:

Your wife is sufficiently busy at work that she has to work at home in the evenings to catch up. (Does she have to leave work at a fixed time to collect DCs from childcare, regardless of whether her work is finished or not?) You arrive home late in the evening, meal in hand. (Had your wife eaten already or was she waiting to eat with you? Had she spent time earlier preparing a meal for you?) From your POV your wife's work isn't catch-up, it's unpaid overtime, so it has no value in your eyes and it is perfectly reasonable to interrupt her with your need to "communicate". Except that you're not communicating, you're having a passive-aggressive dig at what you perceive to be her failure to adequately safeguard your children. And she won't play your game and rise to the bait.

To all the posters thinking that the OP is getting a raw deal simply because he is a man:

If a female OP had written such dismissive, disparaging, contemptuous posts about her spouse, my reaction would be the same. If a female OP had deliberately sought the views of a particular audience, but then felt the need to patronise them by setting out the "key points" in her OP, rather than crediting her audience with the intelligence to work those out for themselves, my reaction would be the same.

The OP isn't getting stick because he has a Y chromosome. He is getting stick because the way he has chosen to write his posts portrays him as self-centred, entitled and arrogant.

To the OP:

Do you actually care that your wife, a human being, seems to be desperately unhappy? Because from where I'm sitting, you just seem annoyed that your Wife-O-Matic 4000 is malfunctioning and you can't find the factory reset button.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

MrBuster, I couldn't agree more.

[ApocalypseThen]

some which you WOULDNT have got had you been female.

Except that he chose to post in AIBU, where nobody gets to have an uninterrupted pity party, male or female, and the whole point is that people pick your words apart to find out exactly where you are being unreasonable.

[ReluctantCamper]

The thing is OP, you have three choices

1. stick with the way things are. Doesn't look like fun
   
2. get divorced
   
3. change your behaviour, because you can't force your wife (or anyone else) to change theirs
   
   So when you get home with a kebab and get grief from your wife, you have two potential responses:
   
   
4. god, I'm so tired, I've been working all week, why are you being so aggressive, just talk to me and so on and so on
   
   
5. I'm sorry love, it is a bit smelly. I'll eat it in the kitchen and put all the wrappers in the bin when I'm done. Hopefully the smell will go. I'm making a cup of tea, would you like one?
   
   When you pick your response, remember your wife is ill.
   
   Not great invading her head space by coming on here by the way.

[ReluctantCamper]

apocalypse, I was going to say that. I have seen astonishing aggression towards female posters in AIBU. It's an equal opportunity blood bath.

[BabyMurloc]

OP - I have been on both sides of the depression spectrum. I have lived with it and with someone who has it. BOTH sides are very hard in different ways. Ignore EVERYTHING else for a moment and ask yourself this simple question:

"Do I still love my wife?"

If the answer is YES then the best advice I can give you is to read some of these websites. They give a lot of useful tips for helping get through the dark times. You can get through this and so can she but she WILL need your help and you WILL need to adjust some of the things you do. At the moment you may be making things worse without even realising it. I wouldn't have taken kindly to being followed after I had walked away from an argument when I had PND.

These websites all offer good advice which has worked for me and many others I know. have a read, educate yourself and go help your wife.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/depression/how-can-friends-and-family-help/#.VW70pUbH2M8

www.time-to-change.org.uk/category/blog/depression

psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/05/08/9-best-ways-to-support-someone-with-depression/

You can get through this but it will require YOU to do some research about her illness and how you can help. If she is having councelling and is on medication she will learn coping strategies as well but you BOTH need to work on this TOGETHER to beat it.

If you want to you can get through this together. I hope you do.

[MrsToddsShortcut]

I really want to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the casual disregard with which you refer to your wife and her depression make it difficult.

If you are genuine, and you want to support your wife, then look at the links posted above, change your attitude, educate yourself and do what you can your help and support your wife and children.

But honestly, I think you need to do some self reflection here about what you've posted and the way you are coming across. Which frankly, is in the manner of a man who isn't married to his wife/partner/equal. You come across as someone who has found a replacement Mummy and expects her to look after you and your home and support you and your children. Now she has the temerity to become ill and needs something from you (and as we all know, Mummies don't get ill) and you are very very angry and very very resentful.

I really hope I am wrong.

[Gabilan]

I've not read all of this thread so I apologise if this has been said but it strikes me that part of the issue is that TheOtherSide is communicating like an extrovert whereas his DW is more introverted. (I think there's a lot else going on, especially with her depression and I don't exactly warm to the OP but this difference struck me the most).

By introverted I don't mean shy - there is quite a difference. I'm an introvert but can be very sociable. It's just that to recharge my batteries I need to be on my own or with another introvert I know well. In contrast extroverts need to be around other people to recharge their batteries.

If you're an introvert, being around a demanding extrovert is exhausting. If you have depression you have little energy anyway. But if all you want is a bit of down time then being followed by someone who seems to need your energy for themselves feels as if you're being attacked by a parasite who wants to sap you of all your resources. All you want to do is get away from them so you can feel better before you face people and the world again.

OP you continually seem to invade your DW's personal space. Having small children she's already exhausted and probably fed up with not being able to go to the loo alone. Then you're continually getting into her space demanding attention and you've even followed her here to her safe virtual world. I can imagine smelly food being the last straw. The trouble with invasive smells is that even when the extrovert has left the room, they are still managing to get up your nose.

This might help to explain how to communicate with an introvert twentytwowords.com/a-simple-explanation-of-how-to-interact-with-introverts/ At the moment, you move into her space and she backs away. Stop doing that, it isn't going to work. Allow her her space but make the space around you inviting. Then if she wants to approach you she will. She may not actually be an introvert but it does seem that at the moment, she needs you to respect her boundaries.

[OrangeVase]

Thanks for coming back OP.
The useful engines comment was, I think, as pp suggested, a Thomas the Tank Engine reference. We used to use it with our two who were both train-obsessed, (especially DD in fact). It was nice. Why automatically dismiss it as being rude?

The "man-haters" was in speech marks - therefore a quote from pp who had discussed the issue of "man-haters". OP didn't say we were"man-haters".

The OP was out of his home from 7.30 am until 9pm. He didn't come in and expect his wife to cook. (Where did the "domestic appliance" accusation come from?) He sorted his own dinner but he dared to smell when he walked in.

If I had worked a 14 hour day and walked in to my home to be told that I smelt bad I would be furious. PP suggested he sit in the kitchen to eat. How would you feel if you came home, or downstairs from a difficult session with the kids, to be told to eat in the kitchen because you smelt?? (I know his wife didn't tell him that)

The FB video was misjudged I agree, (although I can see you meant it as a solidarity thing). But really - when you are walking on eggshells like that and you walk in and you are not welcome whatever you say is wrong.

You have had some good advice on here, along woth some harsh criticism, but none of us knows the full story. Your wife could be abusive - or you could. It could be the end of a relationship or just a rough patch - we don't know.

However it goes - good luck OP - to all of you.

[Inkanta]

Gablian - agree with you about the extrovert/introvert aspect.

[duplodon]

Where is the casual disregard? I read it as 'I really don't understand this'. As someone who has had depression, I'd say most people who haven't had it don't get it.

There is a lot of hating going on in the thread. It's very unnecessary.

[OrangeVase]

By the way, another langauge point. The OP got attacked for using the word "sprogs" to describe his children. I have heard it used a lot amongst my age group (50s) and it is light and affectionate much in the way "kids" is used.

Saw it used in a post today - light tone - no-one commented.