They have brought the fucking dog.

[Welshmaenad]

I'm raging, whether that is U or not!

Quick background, I have a difficult relationship with PIL, they aren't easy people, not especially interested in our lives and visit twice a year (live 400 ish miles away) when they stay for 2-3 days in local hotel (no room here).

Historically they are very passive aggressive, unsupportive, favour BIL over DH and in my view treat him badly, they didn't even bother sending him a birthday card this year. I put them off visiting at Easter as it was the 1st anniversary of my DM's death and I couldn't deal with them, so they have come this weekend. I strategically went food shopping this evening and did not see them.

They have a very old, very horrible dog, terrier cross. It has hospitalised MILs dad several times with bad bites. It was known to be volatile and not safe with kids or cats when they adopted it, pre our children, they were its third or fourth home, other adopters returned it due to volatility. They are shit at managing it, and 50/50 baby it/kowtow to it so it thinks it's the boss, it's snappy, snarly and unpredictable and has basically gone from volatile to vile under their care. They tried bringing it once or twice on visits when DC were smaller and constantly pushed boundaries, would try to fetch it from the car halfway through a day out to be near kids, took kids to car to 'meet' it while I was occupied cooking, would make comments to DC like "oh, poor DDog, he's so sad in the car but mean mummy won't let him in the house" (it eats cats, I have four cats, I feel this is just common sense). I had to get very arsey and say NO, NO DOG before they got the message and started kennelling it.

For my own mental health, and because I have caring responsibilities for my dad, DH is entertaining them and the kids solo this weekend. They have brought the fucking dog. I have gone low level batshit and have told him that he absolutely HAS to enforce no contact or proximity between kids and dog or I will kill the three of them with my bare hands. He's rubbish at standing up to them though and I'm worried that they will ride roughshod over him as per. So I'm going to tell the kids tomorrow that the dog is horrible and they should not be anywhere near the dog and that if GM and GD bring the dog near them they should tell me.

I fear I may be overreacting a smidge because recent behaviour by inlaws means I'm more pissed off with them than usual, but I am genuinely concerned that if this thing gets near my kids, especially my very bouncy animal hugging 5 year old, that it will bite. Am I being a raving bitch or what?

YANBU. I look after dogs for a living, and a bite from even a small dog can be truly awful. My worst bite was from a very small terrier. I needed medical attention & couldn't drive for a week (swollen hand). If your child gets bitten to the face it could scar them for life. Absolutely put your foot down. Why on earth they are prioritising the needs of the dog over the GC is beyond me. I suspect the dog isn't up to date with vaccinations, and thus no kennel will take it. It's only £70 for an annual booster, but some people are so tight they skip it.

Oh ZOMBIE thread :-(

I would tell him he has 2 options. Either the children stay with you, or he puts, in writing, all the ways he is going to safeguard your children during the visit. He needs to include where the dog will be kept and how (e.g. on lead/muzzled at all times when out etc etc) Tell him you need this for your peace of mind and to know you have done everything to protect your children.
If he comes back with the "you don't trust me" argument, I would just refer back to times when he hasn't managed the situation and say that when it comes to the dog you have found it difficult to trust that the dog will be kept apart and that you need it explicitly in writing that he understands this now and can manage the situation.
If you make the decision to send them insist on this. Though to be honest, I think your best bet is to keep the children with you.

op resurrected her own thread husky so as not to type all the background again.

I think offering him alternative access when dog not there is the best compromise. put it all in writing. include how the parents have put chn at risk already by trying to get dog and children together.

put in about how it will be positive for the children to see dad at a fdifferent time. eg he can concentrate on his visit with them without the stress of managing the dog. the children can see their dad for extra time when he can devote his attention to them...

Just be careful OP. Once you are living apart you don't have the same level of influence. Asking him to act in x, y, z manner and put things in writing (which won't have much legal weight after all and are not enforceable), it is just a recipe for years of conflict.

Safeguard the kids, but remember he is no longer your husband and as such you both have equal rights on how the time with the other parent is used. You have no right to demand things in such way unless you are prepared to follow them by the legal route, so if you are not prepared to take on the financial and emotional cost of such route yet, it may be easier to send him an email saying that you are, as he is, that this dog has attacked twice in the past and the damage was bad enough to justify putting it down and ask him if, for the sake of the children, the dog and his parents he could keep them apart as you will feel forced to report any incidents to the police which means that the dog will be destroyed.

I agree to some extent that putting things in writing or getting him to put things in writing are not necessarily useful as it's not legally enforceable. But my thinking that you get him to put it in writing was to safeguard yourself. If an incident happened, unfortunately your ability to safeguard could come into question as it could be argued that you allowed your children to visit knowing there was a dangerous dog present and a chance that the adults involved would not put proper procedures in place to keep your children safe. So getting your views and his written guarantee to keep the dog muzzled or kept restrained protects you too. If you genuinely believe that there is a chance this won't happen then you have no choice but to prevent the children going. You could call the non emergency police for their advice?

Is ex seriously likely to make all the huge financial and emotional lay out to take the OP to court purely to insist on his right to present his children to his parents' known dangerous dog to see if the dog bites or not? Only one person in that scenario ends up looking like a bad parent in front of a judge! Plus very difficult questions are going to be asked about the dog and PiL may find themselves with official involvement.

There's no issues around OP preventing contact, restricting contact or in any way being unreasonable, OP is delighted for them to go to contact, see GPs, and all the rest of it. She is not at all unreasonably unwilling to trust her ex who has repeatedly demonstrated why he can't be trusted to defog and put his children first in front of his parents who are highly irresponsible about this dog, or to be open minded about her children being attacked and bitten.

Without sounding rude surely it's better for the poor dog to be left at home/in kennels than to be locked in a car for hours? I personally think it's very cruel to leave him locked in a potentially hot car

Definitely not the dogs fault it behaves as it does poor thing

Sorry, I had the epic lie in of all lie ins!

I do want the children to see their GP - they don't see much of them and even though I think they are complete cuntweasels, the kids are quite fond. Also my dad died last week so they're the only GP now and I don't want to interrupt that relationship. ExDH did stand up to them last time - but he only had to because once again they pissed all over the boundaries I put in place!

It IS cruel to leave it in the car and I'm not happy about that, I'm also thinking that as its August it's even more likely to be hot enough that they really can't and they will use this as an excuse.

The point about ME making sensible safeguarding decisions is particularly relevant as in actually a student social worker. My gut plus all my rational risk assessment experience is telling me that if the dog is there the kids stay with me, and I don't feel I should ignore that but the aggro is going to be immense. It pains me beyond measure that my kids have now lost both their lovely maternal grandparents and are stuck with these self absorbed twats

Bogey, the dog was managed by the Ex, the OP was away visiting her father.

Being knowledgeable in social work doesn't give you any advantage at this time. Just play it in a intelligent way. Your children are older now. Ask them to stay away of the dog.

You don't want to do anything that could make you look like a controlling unreasonable person if you end up in court over contact. And this is one of the situations that would. If you accuse him of endangering his children lives you will need to have some very solid proof that the dog was going to hurt your children and that they were left unsupervised with it. And no, being a SW student is not a proof.

Sorry to be blunt, but be careful, your main problem here is not the dog, is that this dog issue could ruin the civil informal contact agreement you currently have so, protect your children without damaging the relationship with your ex. The dog will die soon, having a bad relationship with your ex could have long life repercussions in the lives of your children.

Muddledupme
Tell them it's welcome as long as it is securely muzzled. This isn't cruel but stops the dog from being put to sleep because it has bitten.

What an absolutely brilliant solution!
Why did none of the rest of us think of that? A muzzle is inexpensive.
BUT exH MUST be strict about it being kept on, as undoubtedly the silly PILS who cannot believe their pooch could hurt a fly, will be tempted to remove it, as the dog will resent it at first.

I feel sorry for the dog!

Poor thing being called names on here!

Op if your ex can't be trusted to keep the kids safe then it's best if they don't go imo.

He did manage it before though?

YANBU. I've not read the whole thread, but you're not alone. My PIL have an awful dog which they insist on bringing down to see us.

From your comments I wouldn't let them alone with your children, despite your rules. They're going to be ignored. Either go out with them and the dog and supervise or keep the children with you.

Sincere condolences on losing your dad recently.

I'm sure dealing with your idiot PILs is the last thing you feel like doing.

What an awful situation, and it's terrible that it's still going on over a year later! I'm a huge dog lover, but some dogs are aggressive due to fear, stress, territorial issues, lack of exercise or mental stimulation, etc. Quite often their behaviour can be massively improved, but it requires dedication and training, which it seems like previous owners and your in laws have neglected to do. Some dogs remain tetchy though, so it's up to the owners to minimise the chances of the dog being exposed to situations that could trigger aggressive behaviour.

In any case, there's no way other people, especially children, should be put at risk. It's unfair on the children (who could end up scarred or worse), it's unfair on your cats (ditto), and it's unfair on the dog - it shouldn't be left in a car in summer, and it shouldn't be put into a situation that could end up with it being put down. Kennels/dog daycare seems a far more sensible solution all around.

problem here is not the dog, is that this dog issue could ruin the civil informal contact agreement you currently have so, protect your children without damaging the relationship with your ex. The dog will die soon, having a bad relationship with your ex could have long life repercussions in the lives of your children.

The dog has a record of being aggressive and volatile, and has hospitalised one member of the family. Whilst impacting on the relationship with the ex is an important consideration, so is the safety of the children. Sadly there have been too many dog attacks on children by family pets because people have thought it'd probably be fine. And as I've said, I say that as a massive dog lover.

Update: I have found a local kennel with availability hit the duration if their visit! Amazingly they also specialise in badly behaved/aggressive dogs! They are sending me a booking form. I have text exDH to inform him as if it is a done deal and thst I will forward the booking form to his mum. "Perfect solution!!" Said I.

If they refuse to book it I can withhold the children from contact with a clean conscience - because it's not that they're unable to kennel it but unwilling, and therefore unwilling to prioritise their GC's safety over the cunty dog.

Well handled!

Brilliance!

Well handled! And if that vile dog is brought along, the kids stay home with you. No way would I allow them go over while dog is there.

Brilliant! Will benefit the dog as well, good on you

well done Welsh! Although you shouldn't have had to do it, but at least you'll find out for sure whether they're just being wankers (think I know the answer to that).

AND it will show that you did your best to facilitate visiting.

Suggest to PiL that next time they get a house sitter with dog experience (from an agency, so full insurance). The dog will stay in its own home, get walked on its own and maybe a bit of training. PiL can go away with a clear conscience.

I think I know the answer too ThumbWitches but this way I have evidenced that I've done everything in my power to facilitate a safe visit for children and dog.