I have taken everything from DDs room.

[DrivenRoundTheBend]

She is almost 4. She has always been a lovely, loving affectionate little girl and although she still is it's coupled with a horrible temper, screaming, cheeky, rude and terrible attitude at the moment and has been like this for about 3 months. Alongside this she is acting like a bit of a spoilt brat. I hate saying that about her but it's honestly true.

Her attitude if she breaks something is "well you can just buy a new one", if I take 1 or 2 toys from her from being naughty the response is consistent with "well, I'll get it back once I'm being good and in the meantime I can just play with X, Y, Z. She will say things to me and ask if I'm upset and when I've responded no she will move onto something else to try and push my buttons.

I feel like I've tried everything. No screen time, stopping a special trip or day out, time-out, a sticker chart, praising good behaviour at every opportunity, taking away toys etc etc the list is endless but it makes no difference.

Tonight I lost it, I shouted and I mean really shouted I cried. I explained to her it feel like she doesn't love me and how sad this makes me because I love her so much (this seemed to hit a nerve as she got slightly upset and said she does love me and doesn't like to see me cry). I've taken almost every single toy out of her room so there is nothing but some books and her bed and table and a couple of teddies to cuddle in bed (not her favourites they are along with everything else in my room)

I'm devastated. I feel like I've done something really wrong for her to be acting out this badly and I just don't know what it is I've done. I feel like a terrible Mum. My parents have spoken to her but also told me they don't want me to take her to their house for Sunday dinner for example if she's going to be as cheeky as she is to me as it's stressful for them.

I don't know what to do and I don't know where to turn. If this doesn't work I feel like I'll have hit a brick wall. Whenever I speak to people in RL I'm told it's a phase, it's her age, she'll grow out of it but all I can see is it getting progressively worse and I feel completely lost.

Sorry but I think you need to calm down and step back. Four is very small...telling her emotive things like I explained to her it feel like she doesn't love me and how sad this makes me because I love her so much is not on...it's not her problem how you feel. She's four.

All four year olds are challenging and I think you've gone too far removing everything from her room too.

What exactly did she do?

Ok I'm going to say this in the kindest way possible but she's 4. You need to toughen up a bit - it can be relentless and exhausting and frustrating and confusing and soul destroying but it's kind of like that for them too. They are still learning and pushing boundaries. Your parents aren't being very supportive but I don't know their situation. I will say that at 4 Ds was an absolute angel. Dd is 4 now and is adorable 50% of the time and a total fucking nightmare 50% of the time! And yes, she does behave like a spoiled brat sometimes.

The thing is you need to be consistent and also sometimes you need to ignore her. She's clearly doing this for attention and to get a reaction. Ime one of the worst punishments for a child is being ignored.

She threw a bowl of soup at me.

What happened leading up to her throwing the soup?

She's 4. I'm very much on the side of strictness and boundaries but I really don't think a 4 year old can understand all of that.

Stop giving her attention for bad behaviour and give her plenty when she is good and she'll soon work it out.

Gosh, you poor girl. But - this will pass, honestly. You're going to get a load more really helpful, sympathetic posts, but I had to get in quick to reassure you. Three/four year olds can be awful. I remember babysitting my first grandson, about same age as your daughter, and he was absolutely fOUL to me, attacked me, for god's sake too. I was terrified ... but - this awful period passed, and he's now a lovely twelve year old, the most kind and caring child ever. As for how you cope with here and now - lots of fabulous advice coming your way, I'm sure.

why did she do that?

I'm really sorry OP but she's four years old. That's what they do - act out, push boundaries, test your patience. That's her job, she's a kid.

Not all kids respond to having their toys confiscated. You need set consequences and you HAVE to stick to them. Not for a few days, but for weeks and months. Pick a method you're happy with (time out, reward charts, whatever), sit her down and explain it to her, then use it. Follow through every time no matter how much she tantrums and screams and cries.

Kids thrive on rules and boundaries, they need to feel secure and if they don't, they'll lash out. I know it's tough (you don't mention a DH so I assume you're a LP) but it IS just a phase that she'll grow out of eventually.

Good luck

I think you are overreacting to her behaviour. Mine were similar at 4 and I think it was mostly just them finding their feet as children rather than toddlers.

I think that it would be better if you were just calm and consistent rather than reacting to her in such an emotional way - she is too little to be worrying about whether you feel she loves you.

It is a really hard age but in my experience by 5 they are calming down a little again.

It is a phase and she should grow out of it, but sometimes it gets worse before it gets better.

She is pushing the boundaries to see what will happen, and the best thing to do is to continue to keep those boundaries in place. Crying in front of her is no bad thing, she needs to see the hurt she is causing. Its only by experiencing the consequences of her actions that she will change those actions. She did something that made you cry, she doesnt like you crying so she will think twice before doing it again. Dont be afraid to show your emotions.

There is a school of thought that badly behaved children do it to try and force their parents to create boundaries and when those parents dont, and just dont care, then the kids behaviour gets worse and worse until someone is forced to act. Thats how you get ASBOs being put on kids of 5 :(

They WANT boundaries, it makes them feel safe. Without them they are frightened and dont know what is safe and what isnt. To quote Saffy from Ab Fab "You left me in the dark in a room without walls", its a wonderful description of a childhood without boundaries or security. You are giving your DD walls.

Thats a very long winded way of saying that you are doing the right thing. She will learn where the walls are and they will keep her feeling safe.

Keep faith, it does get better

Its hard enough explaining this shit to my 8 year old, i wouldn't dream of to my 4 year old. They are too little to understand

X-post, why did she throw the soup at you? What happened before that? Her behaviour isn't nice but you have really overreacted here, especially when you told her that you feel she doesn't love you. She's only a kid, she doesn't need all of that.

Oh, poor you.

First of all, I can see you're at breaking point, but I think, in future, I'd be inclined to put the emotional blackmail about who loves whom to one side. She's three, it's not something she can deal with.

But I think she maybe does sound a little bit overindulged with her view that she doesn't need to look after her toys and everything is replaceable so I would keep what you have and buy nothing except on very particular occasions. She clearly has enough.

Other than that, I'd make her aware that she simply does not speak to you like that, she does not take that tone, of she wants a tantrum she can do it in her bedroom and that basically the line has been crossed.

Most of all, it's for her own sake. The hardest parenting jobs - the ones that turn you inside out and break your heart - those are the vital ones. It's easy to be nice and give treats and overlook bad behaviour and forget consequences because they look so sad, but in the end, it harms the child.

Don't despair. You'll both be fine if you set your mind to it. She's only 3, it's not that bad and lots of it is being a threenager. The rest is repairable.

Step back. A long way back, and try and think about her not as a teenager, or someone who is trying to do anything to hurt you.

Children of this age can confuse because their verbal ability seems to suggest a level of emotional sophistication she does not have

A book that I found really useful for getting into the mind of a child, and reminding me that life with a child is not about discipline but about building a relationship, is Playful Parenting

My DD is 3 btw and I know that she is little but that doesnt mean I shouldnt cry if she hurts me or be angry when she deliberately does something destructive.

She has sanctions that are age appropriate and I stand by them.

With the toys thing I would suggest you let her "earn" them back. A day with no major incidents (the odd tantrum will still happen I am afraid!) such as no broken toys or thrown dinner, earns her 2 toys back and she can choose them. A further major incident sees them taken away again until she earns them back. Unless she is Prince George, she should have them all back within a week.

Do give her back her favourite cuddlies though, otherwise you will be adding bedtime trauma to the list.

Sorry, meant to underline not strike out. That book is Playful Parenting.

My biggest advice. Dial your own emotional temperature right down.

4 year olds are notoriously bad for pushing bounderies. They are sussing out how much they can get away with. I find the 1-2-3 method works wonders, I explain calmly that i'm going to count to 3 and if it continous she has to go for time out (infront of the washing machine, no toys there!)

Maybe you've tried similar but I think children need clear warnings and an "escape card". If you take everything away from them suddenly, they don't seem to be able to figure out how to get back from that and will usually deteriote further.

You've taken the toys out the room now so its done already, I'd start putting in place a plan for how she can get them back. And i'd start by letting her choose a favourite toy, and if she can help clean up the soup she gets it back.

However, I've never found taking away toys or screentime a very effective punishment for a 4yo, as many of them tend to be quite creative and generally unbothered by it. Sitting alone in the kitchen in silence for 5 minutes gets her every time!

I feel shit about saying it, I do. It came out because I was upset.

Nothing really happened, I made her dinner and she didn't want it and asked for soup. I gave it to her with a slice of bread and hadn't cut the bread. She asked me to and I said give me one second to get a knife and it was all over my lap before I even stood up.

I've stuck with everything, the sticker chart is ongoing but when all the stickers have been removed I resort to the toys. The timeout is in tandem with this. The days out are specific to the days i.e if we are planning to go swimming and she kicks off I will give her a warning that if she keeps it up I won't take her.

I don't tend to react other than to give her a warning, then a second warning and then a sticker/toy is removed. I don't bring it up once it has been resolved (apology and cuddle) and an apology is something I insist on.

This is getting on top of you,and your parents aren't bloody helping.

I would go with putting things back,telling her you were upset and sorry you shouted,and have a cuddle.

I think its a stage they hit sooner or later -at the moment my dd is 9 and I'm tearing my hair out finding a sanction that will work.
But I'll get past it,you will get past it,and noone's failing here as a mum.Ok?

And what did you do when she did that OP?

I do sympathise because that kind of behaviour can be very challenging. My DS is 3.5 and his behaviour has been very difficult of late. About 6 weeks ago, I decided to get strict and now when he misbehaves, he gets a warning and then a time out in the spare room (nearly empty room so boring). I don't shout (or I really try not to!) but I am being very consistent. The first day or so we had huge amounts of time outs and he really pushed me to see what he could get away with. But since then there has been a massive improvement. And I praise lots and lots when he behaves well.

I'm not saying that this approach will work for you, but I think you need to pick a method, be utterly consistent and be prepared for things to get worse before they get better. You need to give it a good 3 or 4 weeks to see results.

Have you got any support locally? Do you have a good HV you could ask for strategies?

The book, by the way, is really useful for finding ways to avoid confrontation in the first place, so punishments are not necessary. Providing win-win situations

I do feel for you - In the words of someone I know, 'never mind the 'terrible twos' it's the 'fuckin fours' that are the problem'. I had a lively one with a lively temper that needed firm lines. The naughty step worked for us, though I spent many many minutes holding the hall door handle while he threw himself at the door trying to get out. The rule was not until he sat quietly on the stair for 2 mins and then apologised. Consistency is important. The book 'toddler taming' was my sanity and has lots of ideas to try, (and some funny bits too) I bought it when I read the author's explanation that he was a paediatrician who thought he knew all about children until he had his own....