I have taken everything from DDs room.

[DrivenRoundTheBend]

She is almost 4. She has always been a lovely, loving affectionate little girl and although she still is it's coupled with a horrible temper, screaming, cheeky, rude and terrible attitude at the moment and has been like this for about 3 months. Alongside this she is acting like a bit of a spoilt brat. I hate saying that about her but it's honestly true.

Her attitude if she breaks something is "well you can just buy a new one", if I take 1 or 2 toys from her from being naughty the response is consistent with "well, I'll get it back once I'm being good and in the meantime I can just play with X, Y, Z. She will say things to me and ask if I'm upset and when I've responded no she will move onto something else to try and push my buttons.

I feel like I've tried everything. No screen time, stopping a special trip or day out, time-out, a sticker chart, praising good behaviour at every opportunity, taking away toys etc etc the list is endless but it makes no difference.

Tonight I lost it, I shouted and I mean really shouted I cried. I explained to her it feel like she doesn't love me and how sad this makes me because I love her so much (this seemed to hit a nerve as she got slightly upset and said she does love me and doesn't like to see me cry). I've taken almost every single toy out of her room so there is nothing but some books and her bed and table and a couple of teddies to cuddle in bed (not her favourites they are along with everything else in my room)

I'm devastated. I feel like I've done something really wrong for her to be acting out this badly and I just don't know what it is I've done. I feel like a terrible Mum. My parents have spoken to her but also told me they don't want me to take her to their house for Sunday dinner for example if she's going to be as cheeky as she is to me as it's stressful for them.

I don't know what to do and I don't know where to turn. If this doesn't work I feel like I'll have hit a brick wall. Whenever I speak to people in RL I'm told it's a phase, it's her age, she'll grow out of it but all I can see is it getting progressively worse and I feel completely lost.

The problem with "you should have done......" is that when you are a first time parent you are learning, and your child is learning too. You are the most important people in each others lives, but that doesnt mean that you both meet each other with an inbuilt understanding of how you both work, its a learning curve.

I appreciate that books and theories do help but you have to find the right one that fits you AND your child, and sometimes that book just doesnt exist and you have to learn by trial and error. There is no manual for parenting and we all get it wrong at times, the trick is to not beat yourself up about it. Learn and move on.

I have often said that I feel sorry for my eldest, he was the one I got it all wrong with so I could get it right (ish) with the others. Thankfully he is quite sanguine about the whole thing and says I must have got some bits right as he is happy and loves me! :o

My escape strategy was to go to the kitchen, open a cupboard door and flick mine the Vs from behind it

BTW - ever wondered why teachers get children to do things their parents can't it's because they don't care as much. The child's behaviour doesn't reflect on them so much, so they can be calmer (more bored-policemna a than shrieky mum, as I read in a book once)

Perhaps try understanding yor daughter. You're responding to her in a way that will only damage her and your relationship with one another.

She was in the wrong, you weren't. Don't apologise to her for her bad behaviour.

I'd make her earn the toys back.

The other thing I learned is that children can't change - you have to change your approach if it's not working. Believe me, that took me a long time to work out. I don't think I really understood that children don't just do what they are told.

Thanks Disappointed - helpful

I sympathise but think you were not appropriate in your response. Very hard though as feels like they're doing it to spite you I know.
I didn't find sticker charts useful with mine despite much trying. I found once one was missing, there'd be a meltdown and the whole concept was out of the window (also not immediate enough). I have found counting a bit ineffective too. removing toys tends to trigger an almighty meltdown.
Best solution for me has been remove 1 toy, only if it's relevant to the action I am cross about, and put it somewhere up high until a proper apology is forthcoming. Or time out. Time out, on own, calm space (in my case, it's the bathroom) for a few minutes (never longer) = transformatively calming

bogeyface your post brought a lump to my throat. Mine are 20 and 16 .

OP - it's normal. I've said it a million times and people disapprove. Mine had a little treat every day. Just six sweets from the jar in a ramekin. If they didn't behave, they didn't get them. Easy to take away something small. and yes, I made sure they cleaned their teeth They have perfect gnashers so no harm done

Disappointed - don't be ridiculous! OP is not "damaging" her daughter by confiscating toys after she behaved very badly! She threw a bowl of soup at the OP! She is 4, not 1 and that is not acceptable! The children need to "understand" that this sort of behaviour is out of order ffs.

I confess I haven't read the whole thread so this may already have been said before... First, don't beat yourself up, or at least stop now as it sounds like you feel guilty enough. Learn from this and move on. Your gut tells your something was wrong in your response and that's why you posted here - very sensible of you, and brilliant that you could recognise this unease.

Second of all, find a good book or website which can guide you in a particular approach and use it for a few weeks consistently to see if it helps. Mixing and matching will be confusing for you both. Suggestions I've seen on this thread already are the Aha! Parenting website / book (brilliant) and Playful Parenting (the Aha! lady gets her whole philosophy from the Playful Parenting guy so they both advocate the same thing really). On top of those I'd recommend Stephenie Davies-Arai's website Communicating with Kids and/or her book by the same name. Here's an idea of her approach communicatingwithkids.com/how-to-deal-with-disrespect/

She won't be like this forever, but how you both emerge from this period will depend on how you handle it. You sound like a very caring and reflective mum who is in need of, and wanting, some guidance. Good luck with whichever path you choose. And remember - she won't give a crap about the toys because all she wants is YOU!

Thank you ovumahead

Op I have 3DC and one has ADHD.
I've been on more than parenting course and still it's bloody difficult.

I have two suggestions:
Now you've taken the toys away you could use it as an opportunity to do the positive praise thing on a large scale: so what you can do is to (I'm not saying this is easy because I find it really difficult with mine) ignore as much as possible any bad behaviour (except for anything dangerous etc etc) and concentrate really hard on any good behaviour at all - she says 'thank you', gives you a hug, the smallest thing. Each time you praise specifically What she did and generously give back toys.

Also:
Never ever remove stickers. Most teachers and psychologists believe it's a bad idea: when you've done something good you earn a star and that star stays earned. You do something bad you don't earn another one.

Also you could try some set aside time to do something together - call it 'lovebombing' or what you will - but it can work for you and her.

It's really really hard. God know we all feel like that sometimes. Solidarity!

If she is starting school in September 2016, then she must only be 3 and 8 months, unless you live in Scotland but I thought school started in August there? I think if this is the case, you are really describing typical impulsive '3' year old behaviour and you should try and lower your expectations. I have a just turned 4 year old and there are differences/improvements in self control that have arisen, even within those 5 months.

Going through a similar phase with Ds1 at the moment, he's 4.4. He's suddenly got big, and I have had the odd moment where I've thought if I can't get him to comply, there's physically nothing I can do about it . It's pretty scary actually. Mostly stemming from the arrival of Ds2, and also from being 4, judging by his friends.

I quite like this book Calmer Easier happier parenting . The techniques have helped a bit.

There's been a certain amount of pearl clutching on this thread, which I would ignore. Thirty years ago, I would have got a serious walloping for that behaviour and my parents wouldn't have thought twice about it. Sounds like you lost your temper (join my club sister), but you didn't resort to violence.

what you are planning to do re the toys sounds fine to me. Best of luck and .

*Is she 4? OP says 'nearly 4' but that she's not going to school until sept 2016.

Aha Parenting also have a good Facebook page that might be easier to digest initially than a huge website. It's really changed how I think and react towards my children.*

I was about to post this exact comment.

If she goes to school Sept 16 (assuming you're in UK) she can't be more than 3y 7m? Which is so very young. I found age 3.6 -4 hellish with DD.

Aha parenting has been so useful to me. I need to go back to it, actually, I find it helps to have a read through every so often. Also Calmer, Happier, Easier Parenting - again similar techniques.

I'm a single parent with family close by and lots of support but there are times I am so frustrated with DD (DS is much more easy going but sometimes the two of them together ...argh!) I just ring my mum and cry. Agree it's not appropriate to have said the stuff about feeling she doesn't love you, but I do know how hard it is.

She is 4 next month. We're in Scotland so starts August 2016

Oh apologies but don't worry- I get called all sorts of made up names, I was a 'rat sorter' a 'bik' the other day, my DD is determined, fiercely independent which means you can't help her with 'anything', it is wearing when I have to pick my son up from school for instance and we need to be somewhere but she's so little still, I find being gentle and kind improves her behaviour considerably- we're closer for it. I appreciate that is hard to do when they're being hard work but personally I think they act up to the 'telling offs'.

There is a lot of brilliant advice on here.

I have to say though that I would not just give her her toys back, or even half of them, tomorrow. Yes, you might regret doing it, and some are saying it is heavy handed (I don't agree) but if you give them (or half) back tomorrow she has 'won' without having to 'win' them back. Let her earn them back.

FWIW I took every toy out of my kid's room when they were 2 and 4. Having gone from going to bed lovely they went through a few weeks of really mucking about at bedtime. One night I single-handedly removed everything to the garage and they earned a toy back each when they had gone to bed properly. It didn't take long for them to earn them back, and I never had to deal with nightmare bedtimes again. And that was aged 2 and 4.
As long as you are having fun together as well no harm in some firm boundries too.

I am liking the aha site

www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/positive-discipline/Child-Hits-parent

My God - you people are insane! The child is 3 yrs old!! I had to go back to re-read the original post, thinking that I had misunderstood and that she was almost 14, rather than almost 4!
OP - you are confusing and frightening her with all your sticker charts, long-winded explanations and telling her that you don't love her. Stay calm, keep everything very simple, and don't try to explain things to her as if she is an adult - she is way too little to understand. If things get too bad, walk out of the room take a deep breath and count to ten before you walk in again. Show her lots of love, even when she is driving you round the bend; you will never regret this. Good luck.

She is not quite 4 years old.
Her communication skills, understanding and processing are limited.

You are treating her like a teenager and expecting her to have the knowledge, understanding and experience to respond like one.

She is probably confused, tired and stressed.

You need to simplify everything and lower your expectations.

The danger is the behaviour you are role playing is 'revenge seeking' (you hurt me and I will hurt you more), which usually comes from a false belief that the person feels unlovable.
Were you brought up to doubt your lovability OP?
You will regret getting into a revenge cycle with your own child.

This is your chance to teach your daughter that she will always be loved and you will manage her world so that this is always true.

Agreeing with a lot of advice on this thread, but one thing that stood out to me was that your parents talked to her and your gran talked to her.

You should be talking to them for advice, but you should be the reference at home. You should be talking to her, not defer to anyone else. You are the person she should be respecting for yourself, not because someone else said so.

To stop something she shouldn't be doing, tell her to stop, tell her the consequence if she doesn't, that you'll count to three, then carry out with the consequence if she doesn't stop on three (and count fast, not slow).

Sometimes, when children are at there most challenging they actually need a bigger hug not a bigger punishment.

This.

Often, I'd stop on my tracks, grab a book and read it with DS. It worked wonders. Particularly in the evenings.

christ I didn't tell her I didn't love her.

And my Gran didn't speak to her. I spoke to my Gran. My Mum has spoken to her on occasions where she has kicked off at my Mum's.

Ffs I'm not seeking revenge on her that's ridiculous. It was a mistake maybe to remove everything but it wasn't to have revenge.

I was very loved as a child and adult. My daughter is very much loved but going through a difficult phase.

I so appreciate the helpful posts I will reread although I may not post again. Some posts I feel are just there to make me feel like shit. Saying I'm damaging her and seeking some kind of revenge for some unloved childhood. I really don't need your help feeling rubbish about it. I'm right there. I posted for advise NOT to be hounded for one snap in 6 months of trying my very best.