To want to have someone pay their way?

[Suffdad79]

I realise this could go down a gender expectation rabbit hole but please bear with me as I do really want to have a female perspective on it:

I'm divorced with two children who I'm lucky and see a lot of and, since the split, I have taken them on holiday a couple of times. Both really nice holidays but would have been nice to have shared them with some grown up company.

Anyway, I am now something of an item with someone I have known a long time and we thought it would be great for the 4 of us to go on holiday together this summer. One of the things I've always known about her was her independence and how she's always working and saying that she would never want to be reliant on a man - that's actually a very attractive quality after being with someone for 9 years who didn't actually contribute anything to the relationship and left a financial apocalypse at the end of it and who happily spent every penny I earned. And yet...

The final balance for the holiday is due and not one penny has so far been forthcoming so i've had to pay the lot today - I'm obviously paying for me and my kids and she was going to pay for herself. Am I likely to see any of that money or am I being taken for a mug? I have a feeling I'm going to do that British thing of letting it slide for the sake of politeness...

Luckily I have a good job, a reasonable lifestyle and I'm making headway in rebuilding my life but I swore to myself I would never again get into any relationship where it wasn't completely equal. I genuinely think that if I end up paying for this, there is no future with her as I'm just setting the tone for the future - again.
Am I being unreasonable about this or should I just accept that, as a man, I'm a walking wallet?

It is off-putting I'm sure when a man is over-anxious about being taken advantage of but I can tell you that the only reason I'm like that at the moment is because it happened to me in a big way and to not be even a little bit wary would surely be foolish?

Yes I do understand where you're coming from and why you feel wary. I also think you need to put the past behind you and trust your new partner a bit more. Most women do not take advantage of men financially. It's possible your new partner is a bit forgetful or lax about money, or isn't as organised as you. I wonder if she intended to pay on time but wasn't able to.

I do think you should consider that she might be secretly resentful at having to pay to join you and your kids on a family holiday. She won't get much alone time with you or time to herself. Even if you do most of the childcare, the holiday will still be dictated by the kids needs and routines, by the things they like to do. I'm sure she'll feel obliged to pull her weight with caring for them even if she'd rather relax on a sunlounger. When I first went away with my DSC (years ago) I didn't know them very well and found it exhausting stepping into the role of 'temporary mum'. I always felt equally responsible for my DSC being safe, happy and entertained right from the first holiday, I think it's natural for women to feel like this and step into the nurturing role, even if you don't expect her to.

If she agreed to pay her share but is delaying, I suggest giving her time to get the money together and not mentioning it for a few months. If she doesn't pay her share, maybe she can even things out by paying for a romantic break for just the 2 of you? You could suggest it's her turn to pay for the next holiday!

My DH and I never exchange money for things, but we do take turns to pay and it evens out over time. I feel this is a nicer, more intimate way of splitting costs as it involves trust and allows both of us to be generous and treat each other. Quite often we argue over who is paying the bill as we both want to treat the other. Whoever gives in first tends to insist on paying next time.
However, in the early days of our relationship DH paid for most things as his salary was much higher. You don't say whether your partner earns more or less than you, but if she earns less it's quite likely she expects you to pay for most things at the moment. It doesn't mean she will turn out like your ex-wife.

She shouldn't EXPECT it though.

I have to say I don't think this sounds anything like an "equal" holiday. You may not be expecting her to run around after your kids but inevitably if you go on holiday with kids they do become a central part of the holiday and she's bound to end up helping you out with them.

If she was going on holiday with friends she'd have much more freedom in what she spends her time doing, she'd be free in the evenings etc. This holiday seems like a family holiday for you and your kids that she's been invited to tag along on.

Personally I'd never enter a relationship where we had to contribute equally financially. I would never want to have more spending money than my partner or be able to afford luxuries that he couldn't. If I couldn't trust him not to take advantage of me financially I'd rather be single. I'd also expect him to trust me financially too and contribute more if he had more disposable income. (I know this isn't the case for everyone I'm just making the point that just because she's independent doesn't mean she has the same execrations as you about the finances in your relationship).

I felt I really had to chime in here and say that the OP has had some really unfair comments IMHO.

If I had willingly agreed to a holiday and agreed to pay towards it, I would take it upon myself to find out when I needed to pay BEFORE it was due and make clear arrrangements to do so, and PAY IT! Without being asked. If I couldn't pay (or even suspected as much) I would certainly feel that I should explain myself as soon as the situation arose, not leave the other person in the lurch, without any good reason. That is just basic good manners and basic respect in my opinion.

This behaviour would ring alarm bells for me too OP. I think you are being quite fair in your application of learning from previous experience and feeling uneasy about this apparent lack of respect (as I see it). I think it would be a big mistake to "let this be your treat" without a really, really good reason, and a really good reason for not having been able to explain it properly to you sooner.

I think there are certain points in a relationship that are 'tests' if you like, not intentionally so but they can really set a precedent/ be a turning point and as you know (and I know from experience) sometimes a realtionship can go really wrong, but when looking back you can see that the writing was on the wall all along, and certain events/ decisions stand out a mile. I thknk this is what you are saying OP.

My instinct says that you wouldn't be posting if you thought it was just another incident of being disorganised but harmless or some such - you'd know this about her already - but that you are posting because you feel there is something more to it. I'd listen to your gut for the sake of your sanity and your kids. She has set herslef up to be a certain way - so let her prove that she is that person, or what sort of person she really is. People only really reveal their true selves after a little while when they get comfy. I know I've glossed over (important) faults because I've become attached to a person but have often lived to regret it. We all have lines that shouldn;t be crossed.

You sound like a great father so I really hope this turns out well for you.

PS the stuff about her coming on holiday and you expecting her to look after your kids is just awful rubbish - ignore these posters - you sound totally reasonable and if she wants to be their step mum she is going to have to parent them so what is the problem of a shared holiday getting to know each other? Madness

And read your first post again - no one should be a walking wallet and be walked all over. You've had some really unfair comments here that I don't believe would have been said if you were female. That really irks me. I'm a bloody decent and fair woman and hate it when other women give men cause to moan. And vice versa. Don't tar us all with the same brush!

And clearly by equal you mean fair not mathematical equal even if differnt salaries - some posters are just being petty not helpful.

Well, I'm not clear about how definite the arrangement was for the girlfriend to pay her share, but I do know I would be pretty annoyed if I discovered that my (possibly) beloved had spent the past few hours discussing our financial affairs and holiday arrangements with a large group of unknowns.
OP, you need to divest yourself of all your bitterness about the past before you engage in a new relationship.

I'm going to Mexico with my boyfriend... he left me to sort out most of it, but said he was happy to pay up to £X amount.

Phoned up the lovely travel lady.... paid the deposit... emailed boyfriend the invoice saying 'Yaaaaay, holiday booked' - can you transfer 50% of deposit into my account? Low and behold... that night he said 'Have you got the cash? I transferred it straight away'..

... Now it's coming up to paying off the remaining balance. I emailed him saying ' Balance is due.. can you transfer £Y so I can pay it off?' oddly enough, 2 hours later got a reply 'It's in your account - thanks for doing this'.

I'm happy / Boyfriend happy / we're going on holiday soon...

No confusion

maybe you should pay as the holiday is based around your children and no doubt she will be expected to play the 'female' role, eg washing t shirts and child minding. Handy for you really !

On the other hand , if this is not the case, you know a lot of women shout loud about being independent but dont want to put their money where their mouth is.

Only you can decide.

'Are you hard up at the moment?'

'Do you want me to pay for the holiday because the kids are going?'

'I thought you were happy to pay your part of the holiday?' (I presume she isn't paying half if there are DCs included)

'Are you still happy to pay towards this holiday? I am willing to pay it all but I need to know what the score is'

....some suggestions

Then, depending on the answer, you chalk it up towards whether you believe you both have a long term future together or no.

I'd do the same as Fluffy Persian- email your girlfriend in a nice friendly way to let her know her share is now due. Takes out any of the angst associated with a face to face discussion. Hope it all goes well for you OP and you, your girlfriend and your children enjoy a lovely break away.

It's not really relevant, is it?

Ask her for it, if she doesn't pay take it as a lesson learned and that you have found out what kind of person she is before anything serious like marriage happens.

"No doubt she expected to be doing woman stuff like washing t shirts?"

How the hell can you attribute that?!!!

I don't understand why people are suggesting soft questions about her feelings about the holiday.

It was agreed what they'd each pay.

The only questions are:

• when are you transferring £x?
• why haven't you?
• right, you're dumped

CactusAnnie
"Well it is, as he spent much of his OP explaining it."

You want it to be relevant so that you can find something wrong with the op.

OP you need to get a grip

Ask her one more time. Send her this:

"Hi honey/sweetheart/X, holiday all paid for, can't wait to spend some time with you in the sun. If you could please send me your share please as I want to pay my credit card bill ASAP. Thank you (love you?)"

Done. If she doesn't pay by Tuesday, dump her. Regardless what I think of you from the way you have spoken about the mother of your children- nobody should lower themselves so far that the best they can do is a liar and a freeloader.

I think it is relevant too. The thread seems to be all about his lack of trust in women paying their pay, and he feels like this because his perception is that his ex was a freeloader who contributed nothing. People are wondering if this is truly the case, or if his ex did in fact contribute a hell of a lot through childcare, housework etc. If she DID, then he would have little grounds for thinking this poor woman was a freeloader.....not that she has anything to do with his ex anyway.

SunsetsAndStarlings

"or if his ex did in fact contribute a hell of a lot through childcare, housework etc."

but this isn't about childcare etc.

"I am inferring that he's one of those men who essentially thinks that all women are lazy gold diggers."

Based on what?

That he won't answer a question that has no real bearing on his situation.

"It would be poetic justice if his new gf actually is"

Based on an assumption?

If it has no bearing why did he include it in his OP?

I was wondering that, too. A good portion of his posts were dedicated to the actions of his ex and how they justify his current attitudes. It seems to me that if the current partner paying her way was the issue, it would have been sufficient to say "she said she'd pay, she hasn't yet, how can I get around this?" That's enough without the ex business.

CactusAnnie
"Are you the OP by any chance?"

Good comeback, No I am not the OP, maybe he put in the op for background information, and did think that posters would pick it to pieces.

The relevance (IMHO) is that his ex spent lots of money and he doesn't want this relationship to be the same.

I'm the OP. Maybe the ex stuff is less and less relevant with each passing day but it obviously does have some impact on how I feel about things.

As far as childcare goes, I work shifts so I was around a lot during the week and we shared childcare responsibilities. By the time both kids were at school, we were doing OK and she had a lot of free time. I've spoken to a lot of guys who ended up in the same situation with the same outcome.

One of the positive aspects to the post-divorce period is that I know exactly what I'm spending and exactly what's in my account at any point. It was always interesting checking my bank account when I was married! I just want to figure out whether I'm at risk of being taken for a ride.

I think where I was coming from all through this post is that love alone isn't all you need for a relationship - The Beatles and Disney were wrong! lol. You need love and the obvious physical attraction but, after you've been divorced and you realise that isn't enough, you need someone who shares your values and your ideals and is responsible. Women select men based on this criteria too right?