AIBU to complain about these mothers?!

[Lindsay81]

AIBU to complain at the gym reception about mothers that bring their >6 year old sons into ladies changing rooms, despite there being signs to say this is not acceptable over this age AND family changing rooms being available?

After my workout I shower and change. I don't linger over this or choose to dry my hair completely in the buff (LOL) but nor do I want to cart all my stuff into one of those cubicles. I dry myself and get dressed. This is quite difficult to do with a 10year old boy's eyes nearly popping out his head due to him staring at you. I feel I should in some way keep my towel pinned to my sides with my elbows, while simultaneously attempting to pull my underwear on, resembling some sort of demented T-Rex.

Are you a mother that does this? If so, 1) Know that I detest you and 2) WHY?! Go into the family changing rooms!

AIBU to complain, especially about the ones that do it weekly?

Are they though Archery? I really doubt somebody who detests mothers of boys is as good at judging age as she thinks she is.

MrTumble, where to start?

It doesn't matter that the comparison was dalmatians vs kids. The fact is that one is permitted to be there, the other isn't and the onus to go somewhere elses should not be upon the creature which is permitted to be there.

" I really doubt somebody who detests mothers of boys is as good at judging age as she thinks she is."

Ridiculous.

What, exactly, makes you the judge of who is and who is not able to discern the approximate age of a child? I don't detest mothers of boys but I'm not too keen on uncles of hospital ward clerks. Does that make me any more, or any less able to determine a child's age?

People get kids ages vastly wrong on a regular basis Shirley

Little boys and little girls are not different "creatures" - dogs and people are.

Mothers are still women.

I am going to bed now.

I don't even have a need to take a young boy child in a women's changing room, but some women do. I do have a boy child who looks older than he is and who has had his right to be in under 6 spaces questioned (at soft play, when he was actually only helping his then very small toddler brother) when he was only 5. Nobody ever questioned his sister though she was older.

Yes, yes, people regularly get kids' ages vastly wrong, but not usually because they jokingly declare that they detest mothers of boys fgs!

And yes, yes, dogs and people (young and old) are different creatures. Notwithstanding that great revelation it is still the case that one type of creature should not be shunted out from where they have a legitimate right to be at the behest of a creature who has no right to be there.

I'm hoping if I say it often enough it might sink in but that's looking worryingly unlikely.

We aren't talking about small boys or little boys or young boys. We are talking about boys over the age limit for that particular area. It doesn't matter how traditional it is that small/young/little children share with women. It only matters that the rule for that gym is that boys 7+ use the male changing room or the family one.

We have a large park locally which has separate under 10s and over 8s play areas. Maybe Shirley would like to leave her 101 teenagers in the little kids area while she walks her dalmatians in the cafe.

I readily admit I'm no judge of age.

However when the boy is taller than my 11 year old, over 5', or in some cases, taller than me, I judge them old enough to be in the men's.

If they are there to accompany a sibling getting changed, sitting fully clothed on the bench in the open plan area, then I definately judge them old enough to wait outside or in the cafe.

If they are naked, in the shower, with no parent in the changing room, I judge them old enough to be in the men's.

If they're running around naked, playing games, with no parent in sight, then I judge their parents for not getting them changed more discreetly.

Yep, a whole lot of judging. But just because their mothers are women too doesn't mean they have the right to bring boys over 10 into a female changing room, where there are teenage girls, sn girls, and pre pubescent girls showering and changing.

I really don't get the fear of men's changing. What exactly do these mothers of boys think goes on in there?

For sheer parental oblivious it is hard to beat the father of a 6 yr old girl at our local pool. The girl 'refused' to change in the men's changing room so the father thought it was a good idea to bring her into the women's changing room to get her changed! This was a basic local pool so the women's changing area was a single communal room with no cubicles.
I didn't witness this, it was only when DD (then aged 10) came out of the changing rooms very distressed - and very late because she refused to get changed while he was there - that I discovered what had happened. DD then mentioned that he had done it the week before too.
I had a word with the staff, who very quickly had a word with the father, who couldn't see what he had done wrong.

"and small boys are just as human as small girls and adult women"

Of course they are. But they are humans, who, once they reach a certain age (as defined by the particular establishment concerned) should use the appropriatly gendered facilities. Not because the are disgusting, or preverts or any of the other imaginary accusations certain hysterical posters appear to be reading, but because girls the same age as them may well be made uncomfortable by their presence in the changing room. And girls have a right to privacy, and it is entirely wrong that they should be denied that because of a perceived male need.

What's more likely - an 8 year old getting hit by a car crossing the road, or being attacked by a pervert in a swimming pool changing area?
Are all these precious boys still holding hands every time they leave the house?

I only use leisure centres which have family changing rooms because there is no way I would allow my 7 year old son to go in the mens changing rooms alone. I won't allow him to use public mens loos if he is on his own. I knew a little boy who was abused in a mens changing room so it makes me feel very apprehensive.

I think given the sign it isn't unreasonable to complain. I also think it is a shame that boys past the age of 6-8 are only going to see adult female bodies in porn. I think this causes a lot of problems for young girls and for adult women too.

I think all in all our culture would be stronger and there would be less harrassment of women over all if we didn't hide ourselves away from the eyes of male children.

But given it isn't anywhere near there yet then I guess we have to continue perpetuating the alieness of the genders to each other into the next generation.

MrTumbles, you keep going on about 'mothers with small children have always been allowed to bring them into women's areas'. Well, they still are. Children 8+ are not 'small'. That's the point.

Where I live the schools start taking them for swimming lessons once a week from Y1 so 5/6 years old, they have to use the correct changing rooms and after the first few weeks,independently as the male teacher stops going. Is this unique to my area? If a six year old can manage to change for PE and school swimming lessons, in male changing rooms, is it really all that unreasonable for them to do so on a weekend?

Dd is 10 and going through puberty, she will not go swimming because of boys from her class in changing rooms, it's happened twice now and it's put her off going at all. Like I say,these boys manage fine during the week in the same place in the male changing rooms,so I'm not sure why they need to use the female ones. My friend still takes her 11 year old in the female rooms with her, and has joked about him liking a certain type. She has been asked to stop him staring, and stopped from taking him in once, she can't see an issue at all.

I just think it's a female space. If families need more family cubicles, it makes sense that they campaign for them. I don't think young girls, or even adult women should have to feel uncomfortable in a space that's intended for them.

Hakluyt and too busy - what do we think goes on there? Well abuse for one thing. Just last week a young boy (6) was in our public library bathroom when he started screaming bloody murder just as his mother taught him to do. Mum rushed in and found some adult male perv showing her son his privates and had asked him to perform oral sex on him, just in the few minutes he was there without an adult. It can and does happen so don't be so quick to write it off.

When we did swim lessons fortunately there were always family rooms available because definitely beyond the age of six I wasn't comfortable having ds look at my or other women's naked bodies because he would give you the look past age three and he wasn't comfortable being there either. But I completely understand SN and unless someone is in puberty I don't know their story and try to be tolerant.

Gosh, Tower- how awful. But what a good thing with so many witnesses there won't be a problem with him being convicted? How quickly did the police arrive?

www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/pervert_sexually_attacked_boy_six_in_king_s_cross_mcdonald_s_toilet_1_3939465

Attacks like that do happen - mainly in public toilets it seems. They are rare of course but do happen.

The sifference between school swimming lessons and public swimming is that at a school swimming less on a 6-8 year old boy is going into the changing room with his whole class and usually without members of the public. Putting aside the rare risk of actually being assaulted, it is far more daunting for a small boy to walk into a changing room full of adults he doesn't know and find his way about and get sorted entirely alone than with his mum or entire class - obviously!

Those of us whose children are fully capable of getting themselves sorted after swimming are fortunate - but the fact your 7 yo can do this doesn't mean others with various special needs can either physically manage or beat the anxiety involved in walking alone into a changing room they don't know full of adult men and teen boys to get changed at age 7.

On most MN threads people are very insistent that 7 is still very young...

"but the fact your 7 yo can do this doesn't mean others with various special needs can either physically manage or beat the anxiety involved in walking alone into a changing room they don'"

Absolutely. And if a child has additional needs, then all swimming pools have- or should have- facilities for those with disabilities. If a boy child has particular anxieties it is for the parents to find a way of managing them that does not potential anxiety to girl children. Why should boys needs take priority over girls?

I have a girl too Hakulet - 7 year old boys in the changing room are not "taking priority" they are simply also there.

"I have a girl too Hakulet - 7 year old boys in the changing room are not "taking priority" they are simply also there."

If the cut off is 6 (which does seem young to me- it's usually 7 or 8 in my experience) then they are taking priority. Because somebody has decided that is the rule- and the parents of boys have decided that their needs take priority over the rules. And therefore over the comfort and convenience of girls.

I change my 6 yo DS in the women's changing rooms at our gym, as I am not prepared to send him into a room full of male strangers in a completely different part of the building. The building is extemly big and the men's changing room is on a different floor and in a different corner of the building. Apart from the myriad safeguarding issues, he really would not be up to putting all his stuff in a locker safely and getting himself to the pool. He's on age 8-9 clothes and passes for 9 quite easily.

I long for someone to complain about is to Reception, to bring this shortfall in the gym changing facilities to their attention. DH is often away and doesn't swim anyway. There are no family changing tooms.

"long for someone to complain about is to Reception, to bring this shortfall in the gym changing facilities to their attention"
Why don't you?

*I think given the sign it isn't unreasonable to complain. I also think it is a shame that boys past the age of 6-8 are only going to see adult female bodies in porn. I think this causes a lot of problems for young girls and for adult women too.

I think all in all our culture would be stronger and there would be less harrassment of women over all if we didn't hide ourselves away from the eyes of male children.

But given it isn't anywhere near there yet then I guess we have to continue perpetuating the alieness of the genders to each other into the next generation.*

So icebeing, if there's no sign, at what age do you think it's no longer appropriate to use a designated female change space?

Or do you think we should just have mixed sex change where naked isn't an issue and everyone can be open about their bodies?

From what ive read here, many women aren't comfortable about being naked in front of other women.

Oh and the one "peedo" incident I did hear about, was two young boys messing about. Older man told them to behave before they got hurt, kids screamed peedo, other boys heard, told parents, uproar, poor man had to justify himself to police, adults taking photo's of him...

Maybe letting boys into male only spaces might normalise other men's bodies and stop them thinking all adult men are potential paedophiles?

So women bodies should be used as a teaching tool for boys in female only spaces?

Fuck that.

CaptainHolt word.

"Maybe letting boys into male only spaces might normalise other men's bodies and stop them thinking all adult men are potential paedophiles?"

This!