AIBU to complain about these mothers?!

[Lindsay81]

AIBU to complain at the gym reception about mothers that bring their >6 year old sons into ladies changing rooms, despite there being signs to say this is not acceptable over this age AND family changing rooms being available?

After my workout I shower and change. I don't linger over this or choose to dry my hair completely in the buff (LOL) but nor do I want to cart all my stuff into one of those cubicles. I dry myself and get dressed. This is quite difficult to do with a 10year old boy's eyes nearly popping out his head due to him staring at you. I feel I should in some way keep my towel pinned to my sides with my elbows, while simultaneously attempting to pull my underwear on, resembling some sort of demented T-Rex.

Are you a mother that does this? If so, 1) Know that I detest you and 2) WHY?! Go into the family changing rooms!

AIBU to complain, especially about the ones that do it weekly?

It's not "male entitlement" it's women who have birthed babies who happen to have a Penis and still be young enough for their female parent to feel they need supervision being vilified (the words of the OP were "know that I detest you" by other women!

There shouldn't be capable NT males of 10+ in the female changing room and not one person has said there should! There is no way the OP knows the child was NT and 10 though unless she asked him or his mother.

Safety should trump a few offended smogs!

FFS it's not about being offended it's about young women feeling uncomfortable and vulnerable. Their safety and comfort is no less important. If you don't like the rules go somewhere else.

If a dad takes his girl into the men's changing nobody talks about "female entitlement" - quite rightly.

Few people are convinced the men's is "full of peados" - but some small boys still need help changing and others are not confident to walk into an unknown room full of strangers to get changed at age 6 while their mum, sisters and smaller brothers all go to the ladies together. Some boys have SN or look older than they are.

If there are plentiful family facilities the families would be using them, but if not whole families with toddlers and 7 year olds have to stand in the cold waiting for one or two because OP doesn't want to use a cubicle or share a space with small male children - she has choices but doesn't want the mother who has a small boy child to have any - both the mother and OP are women and paying customers.

Mythical it's not about "young women" - they were brought into the discussion entirely independently and pubescent girls tend to be self conscious in front of everybody and therefore to use cubicles.

OP, I think you should make friends with the poster who told her friend to have more sympathy for Peaches Geldif. You have a similar flair for the controversial and an incredibly similar writing style.
I think you could be brilliant friends and make each other very happy.

Agree dr0p.

I think under 8 is sensible as a cut off. Purely from a point of view that an 8yo won't struggle to dress themselves and remember to collect up everything they brought with them. Supposedly...

I think my scenario is slightly different to communal/open session pools and so therefore may not be so relevant to the op. There are no adults changing at the time ds swims. But if he is deemed too old to change in with girls, and there are girls brought by their fathers then the whole situation is not as clear cut.

8 is a sensible cut off. The problem is, whether we admit it or not, there are mothers of 9,10,11yr olds who still want to bring them into the ladies changing room. I have 12&10yr old boys. I personally know of 2 mothers of sons this age who have real issues letting their boys use gents toilets. Real (misplaced) anxiety over it. I don't know about 1 but I do know that the other insists her DH takes her son swimming as there is no way she'd let him change in the men's alone and her son refuses to come into the ladies. She thinks other women should put up with it because predatory men are a worse threat than a staring 10yr old. Sometimes parents (somewhat understandably) dont think things through rationally at all. So it's unfair to assume the op was mistaken over the boys age. He could well have been 10.

8 seems like a very reasonable cut off to me. 6 is too young. Not least because at 6 they are still infants at school and hand held a little. Whereas by 8, they are in the juniors and expected to be far more independent with regards their kit etc. Therefore, far more trustworthy to get showered, dressed and out.

I also think I've never seen out gym with empty changing rooms therefore the chances of anything sinister going on must be very low after say, sat morning swim lessons.

Ds who is 8, has severe sn and cannot be left alone or dress himself. I wouldn't take him in the women's changing room because that is not fair on him or the older girls/ women in there. We use the family change or preferably the disabled change as the noise in family changing rooms upsets him. There is a local pool that does not have any unisex facilities so we don't go there.
I do take him into women's toilets if there is no other option and he comes in the cubicle with me. I think that is different as there is nothing to see or stare at.

YANBU. I personally don't care, but why should young girls be made to feel uncomfortable in the FEMALE changing rooms, because a boy their own age is in there?

I bet you'll find that if a dad takes his 10 year old daughter to the pool, she is somehow able to go into the female changing rooms by herself. Yet a similarly aged boy has to stay with his mother.

This is the way a friend of mine operates. Her DD couldn't possibly be made to see a willy, so she changes on her own if there is no older female to go in with, but her 11 year old son is never allowed to change on his own.

Mind you, she still takes him into the female public toilets as well.

Cut off is 7 in my gym/pool, and we also have a family changing area.

Also YANBU, OP - I am a bit a-boggle at the "my right to bring my older male child because I don't want him in the men's changing on his own in trumps your right to change comfortably, because I don't see why women need to get naked in a communal changing room, can they not just hide under a towel/cover themselves up/go into a cubicle/otherwise act as if they were on a mixed beach or similar". A women's communal changing room is possibly one of the few public spaces where it is entirely appropriate to be comfortably naked, and personally I never make any attempts to "cover myself" because it means I get changed much faster. I'm personally not all that bothered by boys seeing me but I can see how others would be, and can totally see the point about young adolescent girls not wanting their male near-peers in the room.

I am a mother of sons, btw, and amn't offended by the idea of them not being welcome in the women's changing area after a certain age at all. DS1 is 5 and already doesn't need much help getting washed and changed after swimming, I can see him coping absolutely fine with the men's changing (which he already uses a lot with his dad) in a year or two.

Thanks for the link Joyful - awful for the boy but tbh a completely different circumstance - a drunk man wandering into a public toilet is awful but not the same as using a changing room in a busy private gym.

I'm with hissy on this really - it's really distressing that so many men are casually viewed as potential attackers of small boys. Regardless of this, girls and women have the right to use their own spaces within feeling watched or intruded upon.

without feeling watched

pee there are many many more if you want to look. There was one not so long ago in a changing room in a department store. It does happen so I can understand parents bring cautious.

That bring said women do have the right to change in private.

I've just had a quick google for crime at our sports centre. No reports of sexual assault I could find.

So why does it seem to be generally accepted that assaults on boys are common in the men's changing rooms? Whenever I mention it mums nod sagely and say they're well known for it.

I totally agree MrTumble

mrsstarlord, I absolutely do care that older boys with SN don't have access. I just don't agree that the way to deal with that is women giving up their women-only spaces, leaving some women and girls with no access.

jessica2, I agree with every word you wrote.

"There probably weren't any family changing rooms available."

This is just a suggestion: They could wait until one became free!

"If there are cubicles available then why not use them if it bothers you so much?"

Yes because the person who has a right to be there should potter off and allow unfettered access to the person who doesn't have the right to be there.

Tomorrow I'll be taking all 101 of my dalmatians into the children's play area because there's not enough room for my puppies in the dog exercise yard. When challenged by irate parents I'll suggest they take their kids to play somewhere else. The parents will tell me to take my dalmatians elsewhere but you'll all be supportive of me when I claim that they are BU won't you?

Won't you?

The best one I went to was all unisex changing, all in cubicles with some larger family cubicles.

Unpopular as it may be to say this on MN Shirley dogs are not human, and small boys are just as human as small girls and adult women - just as mothers of boys are just as much women and paying customers as the OP is. Your comparison is devoid of meaning.

maddening the pool we go to is all unisex cubicles too - works well except that there are only two family cubicles, and as all cubicles are accessed from both wet and dry sides it is not possible to "just queue" (for a long time half naked after swimming with several children of both genders) as helpful people suggest, as it is impossible to see whether another family are patiently queuing on the other side. It used to drive me a bit mad when I took 3 children under 6 (the eldest being a girl, as that clearly makes a difference) swimming as I never once got a family cubicle and had to squash 3 kids incl a baby and myself into a one person cubicle. Presumably lots on this thread think that's only right and proper as women audacious enough to produce mail children should apparently be inconvenienced as much as possible.

Once all but one kids are old enough to go in the next door cubicle unisex all cubicle changing works well though, I agree.

I don't face the problem of needing to take my sons in the ladies but am shocked by hoe the whole "women's spaces" thing is being used as a stick to beat other women with - mothers of small boys should shiver in the cold with their children waiting to dress after swimming so that the OP can have the luxury of choosing not to use a cubicle nor having some disgusting little boy in "her" space. Women's spaces have traditionally included the small children of those women, otherwise mothers are second class citizens who should accept considerable inconvenience meekly.

*male not mail

If an area is for WOMEN, then yes, their rights to be there supersede those of others,Moho the area is not designed for.

I think all pools should have a clear policy on which age children can go into the opposite sex changing room until and display it. They should provide family changing rooms for families of any age. It removes ambiguity and means everyone has a single sex or family area to use. NO ONE needs to be in the wrong area.

Oh....isn't that what the gym of the OP did? But still, people can't stick to it, because there are some who will always find a reason why they are a special case and why their wants supersede others - think that is called selfishness.

As a previous poster said, she didn't like a particular pool's changing facilities, so toes to go there but elsewhere. Surely that is the right approach, not to decide that you will ride rough shod over the systems and have it all your own way.

If you are going swimming with bigger boys, choose where to go carefully, teach them how to get dressed and look after their stuff, go in the family changing room, go at times when it might not be busy - work things out so you don't have to be the cause of someone else's difficulty for your own convenience.

some disgusting little boy in "her" space

I've got a disgusting little boy, MrTumblesBavarianFanbase, and you don't speak for me, as I wouldn't dream of bringing him into women's space unless specifically invited. The point is that the little boys in question are not little - they are quite old enough for it not to be appropriate in a women's changing room.

Isn't that quite ironic though chocolate - this is all about the OP feeling her wants supercede those of others...

"Bigger" meaning "older" boys without SN shouldn't be in the women's changing area - nobody disagrees with that - but lots of "bigfer" boys are actually very young - children's ages can be hard to judge, and some children of both genders have SN meaning (apparently) that their mothers ceaseto be women and should accept iinconvenience in order not to inconvenience those luckier than themselves in that they have a choice of facilities to use.

If there are sufficient family spaces families surely would use them - often provision exists but in such inadequate quantities that is just a token gesture rather than a practical solution.

Women's spaces have always encompassed the small children (of both genders ) of those children.

*of those women