to expect child next door not to run, bang and scream all night and keep us all awake?

[Jaleh]

I'm at end of tether! We moved into our 2-bedroom flat 7 weeks ago, it's 12-months contract so can't move again just yet.
I run my business from home. DH gets up 6am for work but none of us can sleep much because selfish NDN don't control their child!

NDN have child he is about 2 or 3. He sleeps until middle of every day (blissful silence until then) but then he is screaming, shouting, tantruming and running stomping in their flat, noise doesn't stop until approx 3am. He is very very loud and walls are very very thin and floors are wooden so even gentle footsteps make loud echo. In daytime it's maddening because I'm trying to work. I can't hear clients on phone in my bedroom (furthest room from party-wall) and they say they can hear him down phone! I wear earplugs all day but they just muffle noise so it's still big problem to concentrate. Can't wear them at night as I need to hear my own DC if get up or call for me.

Me, DH and our DC are waking 5-6 times a night, often noise is so bad we can't return to sleep for hours. Just when it becomes quiet, he starts screaming and running again. Sounds like he is running wall-wall screaming at same time, slamming himself into party-wall. He also hits party-wall with toys and bangs on walls and floor all night.

When I knock on their door no-one ever answers, even when I know they are at home and I knock many times. So 2 weeks ago I wrote a polite message and put it under their door but nothing is different and they don't acknowledge message.

AIBU to think it is very very wrong to allow child to behave like this? My DC never banged on walls in night, never allowed to run about in night. It is a block of flats not a playground!! What can I do?

I am talking about the noise that sometimes isn't controllable. Toys that are banged on walls can be removed. Carpets/rugs can be put down on wooden floors. I know people who have padding on their child's bedroom walls because their children kick them at night. Shouting and screaming though can be impossible to stop, whatever time of day it is. Changing some children's sleep patterns can be very difficult even with professional help. They might be crap parents or they might not.

Well the fact that they wont discuss it with the OP or engage in anyway makes them crap parents in my book.

Shouting and screaming though can be impossible to stop, whatever time of day it is

Zazzie I read your earlier post and don't disgree with above under certain circumstances. I imagine it must be very difficult. But the OP does not and should not have to put up with it. No matter the cause of the screaming and crying, stoppable or not, she shouldn't have to live with it and it not reasonable to suggest that perhaps she should just get on with it.

who manages the flats? Perhaps ask them to have a word?

Well the fact that they wont discuss it with the OP or engage in anyway makes them crap parents in my book

^
Completely agree

Exactly. It's very hard to have any sympathy for parents who just ignore the neighbours. Rude and anti-social behaviour, so it's very easy to believe that they're pretty crap parents as well.

I agree that they are reasonable about being annoyed about the noise and that the ndn should be engaging with them.

Just out of interest, if the NDN had responded politely (they didn't) and said that the child has SEN and is being treated by doctors, psychologists, sleep specialists and we have done all we can afford to sound proof the wall, then how many people would still feel like the OP shouldn't have to put up with it?

Thank you for replies.

I think maybe NDN works at night, as sometimes I hear somebody come into building and into next-door flat about 3am. So maybe they want child to sleep 3am-12 so parent who was working can also sleep. But this is problem for us my DH works normal day shifts, our DC go to school and I need to get up very early to work in mornings before noise starts. I tried knocking on NDN door at different times of day, when quiet as well as noisy, but they never open it.

I phoned our letting-agent a week ago, she said she spoke to them in past for same noise and said she will speak to them again. But there is nothing in tenancy agreement about quiet hours or what to do if noise is made by child, (if it was a pet causing disturbance it would breach tenancy agreement).

Artandco, unfortunately we can't move our furniture as my DC have bunk beds that use up all space in their bedroom. We have built-in wardrobes in our bedroom and bed and desk are as far away from wall as possible. Flat is only small so the sound does travel.

ThereIsIron, we can't move for 10months because of contract.

OP, if they don't engage and you can't get the landlord to do anything, you need to ring 101 in the middle of the night and get someone out.

If some guy can be prosecuted and have his hi fi system taken away because he played Celine Dion too loud and too often, then this is certainly something that will be taken seriously.

Last resort of course but if you have no choice!!

depends what the previous neighbours were like. if the noisy parents have beenharrassed repeatedly by previous tennants because their child has special needs, and there is not a fucking thing they can do about it... then they are probably not going to answer the door for another rant. oh and you know they may have been doing something where they could not answer the door.

child will probably not have a diagnosis, as these take forever. oh and childs medical history is no-one elses damn business.

But Susan they also ignored a polite note from the OP. Their behaviour is simply not acceptable.

The needs of this one child do not trump the needs of this whole family, also with two children.
It's a very unfortunate situation but they need to engage with neighbours and explain themselves, then at least they've tried to manage to situation!

That is assuming there is an issue and they're not just lazy, anti-social, selfish arses!

if there's nothing in the lease that they are breaching, there's nothing the landlord can do except not renew it when it expires.

Report it to social services, find out if they are already known to them.
Report it to noise control at the council. They will come out and do readings.
We had to do the same, as the children next door were much they same.
My husband would have night sweats, because it caused stress. Their social worker was sympathetic and I for a while we heard the dad shouting at them to stop, which was just as loud as the banging. 3 yea s on, with the problem ever worsening, the council eventually installed sound proofing.
We felt compassionate towards the difficulties this family faced, but the impact on us was great.

"He could have special needs"

Every. Single. Time.

Just for the record........Approximately 14% of under 18's have special needs. Even if you say that another 6% are undiagnosed, that still leaves 80% who dont have them. Also, a large percentage of those will not be the type that have a child screaming and shouting and being generally uncontrolled from noon until 3 am.

Chances are this child does not have special needs, but does have useless parents and even if he did have SN, that would not excuse their total lack of concern for their neighbours or lack of contact with the OP.

The reason I suggested it is having a child with sn myself, I recognise the behaviour especially the repetitive running from wall to wall and banging on walls and floors. We have sound proofing to reduce the noise our son makes doing this.

zazzle I am hearing you. It's a valid point.

The comment about SN wasn't just plucked out of thin air but was about a child whose sleep pattern is very different from the usual and with certain red flags zazzle recognised.

So 18% of kids may have SN but I'm sure a larger proportion of those who run around and bang all night do.

My dearest child included.

bogey yes indeed every single time.

There is a group of children who behave in this way because it is due to SEN.

It is very unusual for children without SEN to behave in this way.

Therefore if you encounter a child behaving this way it is perfectly logical to at least raise the suggestion that the child's behaviour is due to SEN.

Where is the flaw in this logic and why does it infuriate you?

She is banging on wall as we speak.

It doesn't hurt to hear from parents with wall banging kids just to hear the other side. Would love to see how wonderful and approachable people on this thread would feel if they were being awake all night trying to keep their kid quiet.

Ice you are so right.

Running about banging all night is rare in an NT child. And very common in one with SN. It is fair to raise the possibility.

Have you ever met the neighbours? Have you tried knocking at different times of day?

If 5% of children with SEN bang around at 3am, and 1% of children without SEN bang around at 3 am (and the SEN rate is around 20%) then:

A) you have a 2% chance of living next to a child that bangs around at 3 am
B) if you do live next to a child that bangs around at 3am there is a 50:50 chance that child has SEN.

I actually doubt as many as 1% of children without SEN behave this way and the 5% of children with SEN may be a low estimate - so in reality if you encounter someone behaving this way it is more likely than not that they do so due to SEN.

IceBeing I do not think the OP should have to put up with it even if SN were the cause. Her health and that of her family matters.

I personally think soundproofing could be a godsend for neighbours of someone who genuinely cannot help being noisy and does nobody any harm (other than a hit in the wallet which will boost the property value although rentals may be less straightforward). The idea got ridiculed on another thread though.