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Original poster

To ask if anyone is actually against lgbt+ ?

250 replies

tictocstar · 20/04/2015 19:05

If so why? Please people no attacking I am genuinely curious. I know American is more homophobic than UK, and I think (hopefully!) this thread will be empty, but anyone with any experiences or suchlike?

Also please don't accuse me of being homophobic.
(may sound ridic to epect to be accused, but when asking someone this,^ was the reply...)

OP posts:
OrlandoWoolf · 20/04/2015 21:00

I think homophobia /transphobia is more to do with discriminating against people because of who they are, treating them differently, beating them up etc. It's not transphobic if you don't want to be with someone who identifies as trans. It is transphobic if you don't employ someone because they are trans. Or if you beat them up.

ShowMeYourTARDIS · 20/04/2015 21:06

Moln, I don't think that's entirely true. I'm gay, so my dating pool is limited to other lesbians and bi women. If a woman explicitly states that she's straight, then I know that I shouldn't try dating her. Saying "I'm gay/I'm a lesbian" is simpler than saying "I am sexually and romantically attracted to other women."

MadBannersAndCopPorn · 20/04/2015 21:08

Interestingly though there would be no need for a name for any sexuality if everyone one was accepting of everyone's sexual attractions and gender desire.
^

There would still need to be names. E.g. if a woman approaches a man, its far easier for him to say 'sorry I'm gay' than 'I'm not particularly attracted to people like you' or just 'no thanks' you know being rejected isn't personal if they prefer something else. Does that make sense? I'm appalling at saying what I mean!! Smile

GraysAnalogy · 20/04/2015 21:08

If you lot don't know about pansexua and demisexual l god know's what you'll think about 'otherkin'.

it blew my mind too.

it's all crap labelling stemming from the likes of tumblr anyway

MadBannersAndCopPorn · 20/04/2015 21:09

X post tardis, and you said it better than me!!

IntrinsicFieldSubtractor · 20/04/2015 21:10

To be perfectly honest, the difference between pansexual and bisexual is one of those things where I squint a bit and think 'oh yeah, I can see it', then I blink and suddenly they've merged into one again Confused Before I'd ever heard of 'genderfluid' etc as terms I heard the difference described as 'bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, but pansexuals only care about the person, not the gender' - which again sort of makes sense and sort of seems highly insulting to bisexuals, because it sounds as though it's saying bisexuals see their partner as a gender rather than a person.

I agree with Moin on the last point, though. Part of the current clusterfuck of labels ('sapiosexual', 'skoliosexual' etc) comes from people trying to make ever more specific categories so that their complex identities will fit neatly into one or two, when really it would probably be a lot easier to say 'human sexuality is complex and hard to define'.

GhettoFabulous · 20/04/2015 21:10

Funny how some people on this thread say they're not homophobic, then openly sneer at how others want to self identify. I'm heteroflexible and poly, mock if you must!

pressone · 20/04/2015 21:12

My ex-husband claims to be "not against homosexuals but...."
he will invite a gay couple who are friends around for dinner, and eat at their house but would not stay or invite them to stay.
Another friend of mine, who is gay, was staying overnight with us en-route to the continent which was fine until XDH remembered he was gay and was staying under the same roof as us and our then 16 year old son, he got into a right state about what might happen, and then stated he could stay but only if DS stayed at a friends, and only if my friend didn't bring his partner.

Words were had and he backed down, as it happens DS did stay at a friends but nothing to do with my friend being gay, he was unaware of the row conversation about that - he said he was staying out because we would get drunk and play old fogy music!

Janethegirl · 20/04/2015 21:12

Dejard I'm not asexual, but I am not concerned about sexual practices between other consenting adults, if I am not involved.
My own sexual practices are not important within this context Grin

TiggyD · 20/04/2015 21:12

I'm pansexual, in that I only want to have sexual shenanigans with Pan.

GraysAnalogy · 20/04/2015 21:13

'sneering' at ridiculous labels people plonk onto themselves isn't being homophobic.

aren't we trying to get away from labels?

you can't just be it has to have some special snowflake label on it.

IntrinsicFieldSubtractor · 20/04/2015 21:13

GraysAnalogy have you heard of 'transethnicity'? I don't think I've ever observed it in the wild but I'm told it's a thing.

OrlandoWoolf · 20/04/2015 21:14

People who say we should get away with labels normally have the privilege of not having to worry what people think about them.

GraysAnalogy · 20/04/2015 21:14

intrunsic I have indeed and that's another one I think is ridiculous.

'i am a 23 year old white girl but I know I am black. I feel black and prefer black culture, I am a trans black woman'.

Moln · 20/04/2015 21:15

Maybe ShowMe, but in reality even if someone is also gay it doesnt mean they will be attracted to you, same way with a sraight woman fancing a man, doesnt mean he'll fancy her, so you wouldn't necessarily have to announce your sexual preference just give them a wink and theg can say no thanks. Smile

Though I do know what you mean really.

GraysAnalogy · 20/04/2015 21:17

Someone sent me this message once when I posted about transethnicity

you cisethnics better check your fucking privilege and recognize the advantage you have of being born in the right ethnicity

MadBannersAndCopPorn · 20/04/2015 21:20

I think people discriminate because something defies their small view of what is normal.

If I hear people talking in homophobic terms its usually 'its not normal' or ' its not natural' which may well be true for them, but they are ignorant and can't see past the end of their noses.

This transposes into other areas- race, culture, hobbies anything really.
Its that people can't understand others' lifes if they're not the same as theirs.

MzunguMzungu · 20/04/2015 21:21

People who say we should get away with labels normally have the privilege of not having to worry what people think about them

What nonsense!

OrlandoWoolf · 20/04/2015 21:23

mzungu

Do you have to tell people your sexuality or identity?

If I want a relationship, I do.

OrlandoWoolf · 20/04/2015 21:24

You might not have realised but there are people out there who don't want relationships with transpeople - and would like to know if that person is trans.

So getting rid of that label will not help that relationship.

Moln · 20/04/2015 21:27

A lot of homophobia stems from ignorance, like MadBanners ssud not seeing past the end of their noses. This can be rectified though should homosexuality enter their lives somewhere. Someone truely homophobic would retain their views and disown thier family member should they be homosexual a person ignorantly homophobic can change their ideas.

MadBannersAndCopPorn · 20/04/2015 21:31

You need labels- to know who people are where they stand etc. Labeling yourself and fitting into a category is different to labeling someone else based on your own small mindedness.

Imagine not having a label for certain things- e.g. feminist, autistic, mother.

You'd have to spend ages explaining what you meant, of course there are sub categories to any label but you need them to identify with someone.
People may have felt they never fitted in at all, to anything, their whole life. Having a group/ label to belong to may empower them and bring acceptance. So it may be strange to some to have labels to define them but as orlando said its usually those who don't need to worry.

MzunguMzungu · 20/04/2015 21:32

OrlandoWoolf do you have to hide your ethnic identity?

If I want a job or a house then I do.

MadBannersAndCopPorn · 20/04/2015 21:34

Its not a competition!!

IntrinsicFieldSubtractor · 20/04/2015 21:35

Ghetto, there has to be a limit somewhere though. That's what I was trying to get at earlier, but perhaps not explaining myself very well - I just can't accept that someone defining themselves as 'horse-kin' or whatever is perfectly ok because that's how they identify. I mean of course it's ok in that if that's what they want to do then they can go ahead, but if they do it publicly then I reserve the right to take the piss. I don't like this whole idea that the way people choose to identify themselves is sacrosanct and any kind of criticism is akin to homophobia, transphobia etc.

It's not just me being a dickhead, it's something that actually creates problems. You get people who 'identify' as otherkin or 'multiple systems' (i.e. having multiple people living in their heads) who make it harder for people who genuinely have psychosis or other mental illnesses to be taken seriously. You get people who 'identify' as trans without having body dysmorphia, some of whom even go so far as to claim that anyone saying dysmorphia is an essential part of being transgender (i.e., actual transgender people) is transphobic. You get people who 'identify' as gay without being attracted to people of the same sex, and who claim that actual gay men are misogynists for not dating women, because homosexuality is a choice. You get people claiming that mixing cultures/ethnicities is bad because it dilutes people's cultural identities - and this is all coming from the far left, not the far right. That's the end result of saying you can't criticise how people choose to identify.

The limit is always going to be different for different people, and for society as a whole as times change and we become more (or less) progressive. But that's not a reason to avoid drawing one altogether.

Sorry for the long post, I'm not having a go at you personally, and I don't think your defining yourself as 'heteroflexible' is contributing to any of this. But it's something I've been involved with for a while and it increasingly pisses me off.