OH loves to walk...but worries mums might think he's a paedo

[Dowser]

I can't or don't always want to go with him.

So, he's been on his morning constitutional avoiding schools and parks ( probably crossing over the road if he sees a woman on her own approaching him).

He came in wearing some new shorts. I said they look like baggy shorts, have you lost weight.

No, he said, these are my walking shorts. They look like I'm out for a walk and I'm not a paedo.

I'm sniggering here at his logic. I wouldn't even say it was short wearing weather but I feel quite sad for him.

He's misses not having dogs any more. He had dogs for 30 years , and he felt a dog gave him a legitimate reason to walk and not look like a paedo in the park.

Anyone else got a male walk loving OH and how do they overcome this problem.

I think to be fair OH feels more sensitive about it since Jimmy Savile.

... Although it would help a lot if we could justifiably believe the very real child sex abuse networks were going to be publicly blown apart. As things stand, actual child abusers seem able to ferret around with all the arrogant entitlement of your average street yobbo

" I am simply angered by the continuation of social narratives that make such interventions necessary, both the ones that identify men as legitimate threats and the ones that identify women as legitimate targets."

It might be a good idea if men stopped harassing and making women uncomfortable in public on a regular basis, then? Women don't feel vulnerable just because of a social narrative about rape and stranger attacks- they feel vulnerable because violence against women is commonplace (even if mostly home based) and harassment is a day to day experience. What do you suggest the solution is?

It might be a good idea if men stopped harassing and making women uncomfortable in public on a regular basis, then?

I agree.

Lol...Galrick!

I felt so sorry for your OH reading this. I wouldn't automatically think he's a paedo but I have anxiety around men I don't know when I'm on my own, following some bad experiences when a man has repeatedly followed me home and waited outside my sons nursery for me to come out, so I may look edgy around men even if I don't mean to. I would hate for someone to take offence to it or stop doing something they enjoy because of something like that!

What do you suggest the solution is?

Universal public surveillance and immediate punitive responses to harassment incidents from law enforcement. Public shaming of those recorded undertaking such actions and above all else the promotion of a narrative from all relevant social movements that this behavior is aberrant, deviant and perverse, on the same scale as lewd public exposure.

Galrick

Unlooked-for expressions of gratitude are often the most welcome.

And I agree regarding the problems around child abusers. It would be much better if we could genuinely trust that such would be fully excised from the nation and the state.

Maybe a bit of mindset change? Maybe men accepting that they are part of the problem, and not behaving as if women are expecting to be treated like royalty who don't want share the pavement with men when it's suggested that they use reassuring body language?

Wasnt that Seagrass who said that?

Oh that is sad
My dad always goes for walks
Never thought of it like that. Ever.

I'm confused by daisychain01's post @ 17:19:32. Does anyone know what she means by it please?

I didn't understand that post either Grunt

Hakluyt

Do you think, perhaps, that advising men to alter their behaviour to avoid being seen as sexually threatening might be similar to advising women to alter their behaviour in order not to seem sexually available?

I recognise which of these issues has been most prevalent throughout history. Nevertheless I regard neither suggested solution morally optimal. I believe it is possible to dispense with the toxic narratives which produced both such social pressures, even while recognising that it is the latter of the two assumptions above that has caused, so far, the most harm.

"Do you think, perhaps, that advising men to alter their behaviour to avoid being seen as sexually threatening might be similar to advising women to alter their behaviour in order not to seem sexually available?"

No. I don't. And neither would you if you stopped to think for 10 seconds.

It is possible you possess a perspective or data that I do not. I'd welcome a clarification of your position so that I can address it reasonably.

Though my response may be significantly delayed. Reality calls.

All that has to happen is for men to assume that women are not sexually available until told to the contrary, and are never open to unsolicited touch or comment. Problem solved. It is for men to change their behaviour, not women.

Ah Dowser, bless him, he won't be able to walk carrying all that stuff

Just be careful with the spelling of his just walking t shirt, don't want the l mixed up with an n!

'...both the ones that identify men as legitimate threats and the ones that identify women as legitimate targets."

Sadly you seem unable to recognise that only one of those is a narrative. The other is the reality that women and girls, even young girls of ten and eleven, are subjected to daily.

It would be really helpful if you could ditch the preposterous idea that you are a victim of anything here, and start challenging sexism whenever you see it or hear it.

If there really are decent men out there I would like to see and hear evidence of that. I would like to hear them and see them challenging the yobs in the cars and vans who roll down their windows to shout at women and girls walking past. I would like to hear some decent man roll down his own window and tell off those who think that women can occupy the outdoors only on the yobs' terms. I would like to see and hear the decent men wade in and stop groups of teenage lads making obscene remarks at women of all ages that they encounter. Or challenging the pervy older men who leer at teenage girls and make remarks about their appearance and attractiveness. Maybe say something along the lines of 'Shut the fuck up and leave women and girls in peace to go about their business' or 'Who do you think you are?' or 'What makes you think you have a right to speak to people like that?' or 'Just because women and girls are outside their homes and have a pulse doesn't mean they have to pay you attention or suffer the consequences.'

'It might be a good idea if men stopped harassing and making women uncomfortable in public on a regular basis, then?'
'I agree.'
What are you going to do to make that happen?

I would like to see and hear evidence ... to make that happen?

Rousing applause!

FFS he's having a walk, who are these people who read something into nothing, and please tell him not to cross the road when he sees a woman, he's fuelling the fire!

"Do you think, perhaps, that advising men to alter their behaviour to avoid being seen as sexually threatening might be similar to advising women to alter their behaviour in order not to seem sexually available?" - this is one of the most random and disingenuous equivocations I've read in a long time.
And what in the blue hell has Jimmy Saville got to do with your OH, OP?

Mathanxiety- thank heavens you've arrived!

this is one of the most random and disingenuous equivocations I've read in a long time.

Allow me to pick the 'question' apart (I'm delaying the washing-up.)

Women aren't advised to alter their behaviour in order not to seem sexually available. Seeming sexually available doesn't cause sexual or verbal assault. Seeming sexually available is often one of our objectives on a night out.

Such advice to women and girls is based entirely on the defences put forward by aggressors. While frequently successful, this style of defence is quite spurious. Looking attractive doesn't automatically cause assault by men; looking unattractive doesn't prevent it.

The question tried to align "seeming sexually available" in women with "seeming sexually threatening" in men. The issue under discussion was women's fears that a man might prove sexually threatening. This has nothing to do with whether she seems sexually available.

Women are not wrong, however, to fear sexual or verbal assault by men. These crimes are predominantly perpetrated by men. There's no way of knowing whether a man you've just met, or not met, could be an aggressor.
This is also true for men: they are more likely to be assaulted by a man than by a woman.

So everyone needs to be somewhat cautious of men we don't know. And whether you look sexy or not has little bearing on whether a man will assault you.

Since everyone needs to be somewhat cautious of men (as things stand), it's reasonable to ask men to curtail potentially threatening behaviours out of consideration for others.

And I'm going to leave the washing-up for the morning.