To think some children are just horrible?

[Wideeyedcarrrot]

And ds is one of those children.

I don't know what's gone wrong, it must be my fault but I've done my best. He's always been difficult. He wants smiley and cheery like other people's babies and toddlers. He was miserable and did nothing but scream. He never slept. He still doesn't eat very well as certain textures and smells make him sick. He's very demanding of my time. And now all he wants to do is fight. He's very aggressive and unpleasant, he has a superior attitude and always wants to be the best. He's unkind to other children, putting them down and being spiteful. We've been out with a friend today. Her children walked around the farm park enjoying themselves and looking at animals like normal children. Mine wanted to race, to spot the animals 'first' to crow that he'd seen something before them. He can't just be like other children. He doesn't appreciate anything, he's obnoxious and rude.
It ended in him (purposefully although he claims it was an accident) running over a toddler whilst he was on a pedal tractor. I don't think he meant to actually knock the child over but he was chasing after him whilst riding the tractor so it was bound to happen. I just couldn't quite get there in time to stop it even though I was shouting at ds to stop.
I took ds off the tractors, told him off, made him sit out and watch. He wasn't allowed anything from the gift shop (I'd originally said he could spend his pocket money) and there won't be any football tonight or tomorrow.
I can barely even look at him. Why would be behave like that to a little child? No one has ever been mean to him. That's how psychopaths start, by picking on those weaker than them. He constantly has to be pretending to fight, always got a stick in his hand pretending it's a gun. The behaviour disgusts me, I don't want him anywhere near me at the moment although I'm trying not to show it because I'm so annoyed about the tractor incident. I'm trying to calm down.
What has gone so badly wrong? Why is he such hard work? He can't relate to people properly. Well no actually he can. When he chooses to or when he wants something. He's very manipulative.

I wonder if it's because he's an only child but so am I and I never had trouble relating to other children. And I know other people with only children and their dc aren't like ds. He always wants more, he's never satisfied with anything. Never grateful for anything.

Is this something I've done or Aibu to think some children are just more difficult than others? My friend didnt once have to speak to her children about their behaviour. I'm constantly on edge with ds waiting for him to do something he shouldn't. Earlier in the day he'd been 'pushing' my friend's dd on the swing. Except actually he'd been thumping her in the back and trying to push her off and again I had to go and intervene. I just cannot understand why he does it, where is this nasty behaviour coming from?

Praising every little thing can really help if you have a child (as I do) who can be daunted by large scale 'being good' I used a reward chart that was broken down in to very small chunks of expectation which meant if she got her coat on when asked for example she got a star even if she'd been very moany and slow in everything else that morning. Gradually the things get bigger but this way you don't end up with an already discouraged child getting flatter and flatter because what you ask of them is just too big.

Please don't think your child is a psychopath - that is so sad . Given your sons young age it's possible he could have something undiagnosed and i think it would help to get that ruled out because otherwise you won't know what you are dealing with. A child with SEN cannot be expected to behave like a NT child.

Children are not diagnosed wrongly with SEN - most of the time you need very sound evidence and the authorities try not to notice anything is up because children with identifiable SEN cost the council more money.

OP, I can understand that you are frustrated but please try not to be so hard on yourself and your son. I think it's highly unlikely he has 'just been born bad' - I do not believe anyone is.

Drop him off to play rugby at the weekends.

And do praise him when he does well and totally ignore him when he plays up, just walk into another room
keep him away from days out with friends and their children for now so you can't be upset and embarrassed by his behaviour.

momieplum, that is really interesting. Can you remember any more details. I wondered exactly that about DS2.

He was in immense physical pain - agony really, for the first two years of his life and there was nothing we could do. His stomach and throat were raw from appalling reflux, and meds only helped a bit. He was terrified of food because it caused him such pain, so refused to eat and suffered hunger pangs. He was too in pain to fall into a deep sleep ever, and so had severe exhaustion to deal with on top of everything else. He screamed and screamed, and was skeletally thin.

It was a deeply disturbing and traumatic time for all of us, but most of all for him. He was too tiny to understand that we could do nothing to help. (We did what we could, he was always in our arms and we tried every medicine going. I used to drip feed his food in such tiny amounts that there wasn't enough to throw back up. It took hours.

I often wonder if that took its toll on him psychologically. He has very low self confidence, and there's no reason for that as he has been loved and appreciated all his life, in a very secure family. But deep down, he might have a neural reaction similar to that of neglected children. If we couldn't comfort him when he needed it, (even though we tried and tried) he might have felt he didn't deserve comfort.

There are a lot of things happening on this thread which is typical of this kind of thread in AIBU - no fault of any individual posters but the overall effect is very overwhelming.

You have a lot of people suggesting different things, which might work wonders in one particular situation but may be inappropriate here (though might be worth separating out as strategies to try, especially if the assessment route doesn't pan out). Some things being suggested are very complex and could actually backfire and some things are very simplistic and may (or may not!) have been tried already, or might be helpful but only in conjunction with other things. In any case it would be impossible to follow all of the advice on this thread at once. Great to have so many suggestions, in practice leading to a lot of sifting through.

Various people picking up on small parts of either the OP's posts or individual replies - the negativity (does have an effect, but also difficult to understand unless you've been there) - the idea that SN is "just bad parenting" (lol) or "used as an excuse" (of course some parents will, because a SN child is not a magic spell which creates perfect parents. Using SN as an excuse in most cases is bad management, does not mean that the SN are not real) - the philosophical question of whether somebody can be "born bad" and if not at which age it becomes possible for somebody to be "bad". (interesting discussion but not massively helpful to the OP, but it's AIBU which is somewhat a debate forum)

Many different conditions/diagnoses/solutions being suggested, which is massively bamboozling and also something that none of us can really know. Bear in mind that many SN or developmental/trauma issues can have symptoms which look very similar especially to the untrained eye. The only definite thread I can see running through the OP's descriptions is sensory, but the cause of sensory issues is another question. Most people have experienced sensory issues at least temporarily, e.g. when you have a bad cold or the flu, light, temperature, noise and movement are all unbearable. So it's not as simple as saying "There are sensory issues" because to help you also need to know the root cause. Reading the sensory book might help to understand them, though.

Then you get what I tend to think of as "the curse of AIBU" which is where posters start circling almost like vultures demanding updates, action, professing their deepest worry for the situation, and in some cases getting quite angry at the OP for (in effect) failing to entertain them sufficiently. Yes it's human nature to want a nice neat tied off little ending, everything resolved. In reality it's really unlikely to work that way. Like Crabby said on the last page, it's only been two days, 200+ posts is an overwhelming volume of information to sift through and some of it has been quite critical.

Can we give OP some space to process things and maybe make a short term plan of action with some things to follow up and then update if and when she wants to? I mean I'm not sure there's much more to add that hasn't already been said, it's getting a bit repetitive at this point.

'What would you of had the mother done?' After her son punched my 3 year old in the head so hard she had a black eye because he wanted the ball she had just picked up? Well, more than just 'sorry frank has SN' he wasn't even told it was wrong and my daughter had to walk around with a bruised face for a few days. Then around 15 minutes after he did that shoved a boy over and kicked him in the stomach, and again the mother did nothing apart from shouting 'frank ! For christs sake!' I'm not saying SN is used as an excuse all the time for bad behaviour, I was just pointing out my experience of the only time I've (knowingly) come into contact with a child who apprently has SN. I know not all children diagnosed with SN are just horrible (badly parented?) Kids but from that experience I had, that kid was vile and needed telling it was wrong to hurt another child. Especially for no reason.

Sometimes on MN I want to reach through time and space and give a poster a hug. OP you sound lovely and caring and I'm sorry that you have such worries over your son. My own DS was like this when he was about 3/4 and I too wondered what I had done to fail him as a parent. It was a horrible, horrible time that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I hope the suggestions on this thread have been helpful. As he's that bit older I'd want to have some outside help - assessment and play/family therapy to help place you both (and his dad too) on a positive track.

OP what strikes me is that you are interpreting his behaviour in a very adult way. Even if he does not have sensory issues/ASD (which I still think you need to explore), your fears and anxieties about perfectionism, gambling, psychopathy, are looking way way into the further of what is a very little boy.

Believe me, we all look ahead and fear the worst. What he needs is understanding of his behaviour - for you to see things through *his8 eyes, right now.

ND TO BE ENABLED TO DO THAT, YOU NEED THE SUPPORT OF OTHERS WHO HAVE CHALLENGING CHILDREN

Sorry about the Caps. not shouting!!

the future. Not the 'further'

Sierra I think I need to tell you that your postings are vile and you need to stop it before you hurt the parents of kids who do have SEN. Hurting people like that, as your ignorant ranting will do, is wrong.

HTH

My DS was diagnosed with ASD at the end of year 2. Concerns were raised at the end of year 1. When I asked why there were no concerns before that I was told it was because the higher the school years the more rigid and less free play the classroom became. This meant a lot of his behaviours weren't picked up earlier and more structure, more concentration required meant DS struggled more so it was easier for the school to differentiate him from the NT kids.

Maybe this is why school have no concerns right now?

CAHMS in certain areas will not see children under 7 so check before asking for a referral.

I was referred by my GP.

That should be some not certain.

Op two things. What's his eye contact like? Eye contact with a variety of people?

My gut says ASD or the polar opposite, which is a highly sensitive child. Sensitive emotionally and physically that is. The difference between a child with ASD and a child which is 'highly sensitive', is their ability to read people's emotions. Children with ASD struggle, while highly sensitive children are painfully over aware of how others feel. There's a book by Elaine Aron that might help for the later

FFS you cannot diagnose ASD based on eye contact, what nonsense. (getting frustrated. Should probably hide thread for a bit.)

SOME people with ASD struggle with eye contact.

SOME people with ASD do not.

A bit like people WITHOUT ASD really.

ASD is a myriad of 100's of symptoms and they are different in every person with ASD. It is not possible to say ALL children with ASD do THIS, ALL children with ASD won't do THAT.

They're all different, which is why it's such a freaking struggle for them to be understood.

Oooh Box - my youngest was very averse to eye contact at that age. Shall I go back in time and get her a diagnosis based on that isolated characteristic too?

I don't know that she's gone, but I'd be a bit weary of checking the thread too. Hopefully she's out enjoying the sunshine :)

I'm still here!
Ds isn't horrible really, he's just bloody hard work. I know he isn't doing it on purpose and I know he wasn't difficult as a baby on purpose but it stills wears me down. I think seeing my friend's children enjoying a day out - happy, undemanding, relaxed - just highlighted to me how different my son is.

He has a huge vocabulary which is my fault I think, he's been around adults too much. It does him no favours because he will say to children his own age things like 'you look pensive' or 'I'm scrupulous about looking after my toys' and it makes him seem even odder. He has lovely manners and can make conversation easily with adults who I think find him quirky. In fact his teacher described him as 'eccentric and quirky' at parent's evening. He has a memory like a steel trap and things I think he's paid no attention to he will suddenly relate something back to weeks or sometimes months after the initial conversation. He suddenly started going on about DNA yesterday and blood relatives. Something I talked about with him ages ago when he was asking why he looks a bit like me and a bit like daddy but why daddy and I look nothing alike.

I've bought the too loud etc book and will read it ASAP. I'm going to go and speak to his teacher tomorrow if she's available (and make an appointment if not) about how he's getting on friendship wise. The teacher is new and has only been at the school for a fortnight as the original teacher went on maternity leave so she may not know ds that well yet.

I was livid with him yesterday. And actually it was off the back of another incident last week when we went to the park. They'd got a bouncy castle there - which admittedly was very busy - and ds went on. Immediately he singled out a smaller child and was trying to knock him over and bounce on him. I just cannot figure ds out. He seems to choose one child to target (like a bully?) but other times and often to friend's younger children he can be gorgeous. It just makes no sense to me. He definitely gets a certain 'look' about him just before he does it. He almost doesn't look like ds at the time and I find that a bit worrying too. He can't explain after why he's done it either.

Thank you for all the advice and experiences shared on this thread.

using adult vocabulary is, I think, fairly common in children with Aspergers. Ditto, noticing and recalling small details that others might not notice.

Being highly sensitive is not the opposite to autism very recently there's been an article published explaining how some with autism in fact have too much rather than a lack of empathy. So walk in a room and feel the vibes coming from everyone and that's why they become distressed.

wide be kind to yourself. You've come on for a rant after a hard day. Lots more has come out that you've probably been harbouring for a long time - being a good parent.
Lots of information has been given as well as lots of suggestions for assessment.

I'm sure right now it's probably added to the overwhelming feeling you already had. My advice would be make a list of what you want to do and work through it.

OP just to add, please don't feel that everything your ds is doing is all down to YOUR fault.
Plenty if posters are suggesting an assessment and that's because such behaviours can be due to the child's make up/temperament rather than because of your parenting.
You can NOT have taught your ds too much vocabulary!

Be kinder to yourself. You are clearly trying your best and this is the only thing anyone can ask from you.