To think some children are just horrible?

[Wideeyedcarrrot]

And ds is one of those children.

I don't know what's gone wrong, it must be my fault but I've done my best. He's always been difficult. He wants smiley and cheery like other people's babies and toddlers. He was miserable and did nothing but scream. He never slept. He still doesn't eat very well as certain textures and smells make him sick. He's very demanding of my time. And now all he wants to do is fight. He's very aggressive and unpleasant, he has a superior attitude and always wants to be the best. He's unkind to other children, putting them down and being spiteful. We've been out with a friend today. Her children walked around the farm park enjoying themselves and looking at animals like normal children. Mine wanted to race, to spot the animals 'first' to crow that he'd seen something before them. He can't just be like other children. He doesn't appreciate anything, he's obnoxious and rude.
It ended in him (purposefully although he claims it was an accident) running over a toddler whilst he was on a pedal tractor. I don't think he meant to actually knock the child over but he was chasing after him whilst riding the tractor so it was bound to happen. I just couldn't quite get there in time to stop it even though I was shouting at ds to stop.
I took ds off the tractors, told him off, made him sit out and watch. He wasn't allowed anything from the gift shop (I'd originally said he could spend his pocket money) and there won't be any football tonight or tomorrow.
I can barely even look at him. Why would be behave like that to a little child? No one has ever been mean to him. That's how psychopaths start, by picking on those weaker than them. He constantly has to be pretending to fight, always got a stick in his hand pretending it's a gun. The behaviour disgusts me, I don't want him anywhere near me at the moment although I'm trying not to show it because I'm so annoyed about the tractor incident. I'm trying to calm down.
What has gone so badly wrong? Why is he such hard work? He can't relate to people properly. Well no actually he can. When he chooses to or when he wants something. He's very manipulative.

I wonder if it's because he's an only child but so am I and I never had trouble relating to other children. And I know other people with only children and their dc aren't like ds. He always wants more, he's never satisfied with anything. Never grateful for anything.

Is this something I've done or Aibu to think some children are just more difficult than others? My friend didnt once have to speak to her children about their behaviour. I'm constantly on edge with ds waiting for him to do something he shouldn't. Earlier in the day he'd been 'pushing' my friend's dd on the swing. Except actually he'd been thumping her in the back and trying to push her off and again I had to go and intervene. I just cannot understand why he does it, where is this nasty behaviour coming from?

wide I hope you can ignore the ignorant comments by people who think they can judge your parenting from their computer.

Lots of people who have been through very similar situations to yours are suggesting that your DS may have autism (pretty much every single comment you've made from the baby years stuff to the high vocab is a tick-box trait) He may not, but the chances that all his problems stem from you being a bad mum are zero.

You sound concerned, attentive, kind and quite understandably sad and at the end of your tether. It's OK to get frustrated. It is harder work. I get jealous of people with easy children too sometimes. But the smug parents of placid undemanding DC simply don't get it, so let their comments wash over you.

I agree with others that you are doing a great job of noticing that there is an issue. Fwiw I would say that competitive and manipulative behaviour is a contra-indication to ASD as they both require fairly sophisticated understanding of other people. There are great suggestions on this thread - including the posters talking about him growing out of these difficulties.

Wanting to connect with others and having no idea how to do it successfully is something very familiar to me from the children I know with an autistic spectrum disorder. You can get an extroverted person on the autistic spectrum. The thing you describe with the bouncy castle is very familiar, as is the zoning out - the desire to connect with another person is trumping all considerations of that person's preferences for physical space or mode of contact.

Things I've seen the parent do in that sort of situation:

1. Stay very close, and model successful interactions. Pretty much act as a translator for the child so that the person they want to interact with gets a positive experience.

1. Be a physical barrier between your child and other people on the bouncy castle. I know parents who say quietly to the bouncy castle operator "my child has special needs. I have to help them navigate this. Please can I go on the castle with them to keep everything locked down?"

1. Manhandle them to the ground and sit on them when it all gets too much. (works well with some (NOT ALL) children who are in sensory overwhelm - calms them. Yes, you will become known as the mother who sits on her child. People who are worth hanging out with will understand.)

It all passes. Thinking around our social set, by the time the children are about 8, the need for this sort of close handling is massively easing off, and it's likely to catch the parents by surprise at a birthday party or something where the child suddenly goes into that mode after a year or two of not being triggered into it (at which point it's a situation 3 on the list above, since no-one was watching out and ready to head it off at the pass. Ah well.)

ommmward

I totally agree. What has been interpreted as bullying, or competitiveness, COULd be attempts to interact. And the attempt is doubly over-the top because the child is over-excited already in an over-loading environment

I just told ds to come off the castle, which he did, but he seemed surprised and I had to explain why he'd had to come off the castle.
He does seem to struggle with personal space. Again only with children. For instance he hugged my friend's dd yesterday (she's a similar age, a little older) and then he would not let go. He had to be prised off.

I suppose his interactions with other children seem immature whereas in other ways he seems overly mature. I know this is a contradiction in terms.

I totally understand

What is apparently mature is his language. But his understand of social norms and his ability to regulate his behaviour is not.

I really think it might help you to maybe do some reading around this/ask for help on the SN board here, as well as this thread

Wideeyedcarrot everything you write (to me with little experience) screams sensory processing issues/HFA - the more you write the more I feel like saying, tick, tick, tick.

These are both spectrums - huge variables and extremes under an umbrella diagnosis.

Please INSIST on a referral because once you know what you're dealing with you can develop the tools you need to make life much more pleasant and joyful for both of you.

Apologies - I have skim read. But wanted to share this blog post I wrote 5 years ago about when you don't like your child.

I then wrote this one a year later when I finally figured out what the problem was.

My son is now 11. He still has his moments. But in general he is a lovely boy. EVERYBODY who spends time with him comments on what a lovely child he is. He still kicks off at home, but I've learnt how to deal with it better and he's learnt how to manage himself.

My advice: a) stop comparing him to others (even though I know it's hard) b) stop imagining the worst - that what he is doing now is indicative of the person he will become. Right now he's just a little boy who needs some help c) try to be empathetic to him (even though you want to scream) and d) try to enjoy the rare moments he is lovely. Don't overly praise them if he isn't comfortable with praise (mine wasn't either) but if you feel more positive to him, he will feel it and hopefully reflect it back.

Totally familiar for children on the spectrum to be confident talking with adults - little einstein - abstract interests - complex vocab (if you listen carefully, you can often catch the exact accent, rhythm and intonation of the person/video where the child learned the phrases) and then to have no farking clue how to interact with another small child. It just means that you have to consciously help him learn that stuff (not that he has to be conscious about it, but you do - and do that whole discipleship/ modelling/ guiding/ supporting/ intervening/ running interference thing rather than judging and discipline and rules and punishment, because that is going to be too hard for him to navigate for a few years yet).

I'm another poster who is just nodding along and going "tick tick tick" with every single post.

In a way, it doesn't matter between you and your child whether he gets a formal diagnosis or not (although, if you want him to stay in school longer term, he could probably really do with having one). What matters is you doing exactly what you are doing - learning everything you can about what life is like for quirky children in general, and for your uniquely quirky child in particular. Then you can work out how best to help him navigate his childhood happily, and end up independent, confident, happy, and ready for independent adulthood. But all the normal people's rules of thumb about discipline and naughty steps and reward charts and all that bollocks are unlikely to be a tremendously good fit for your family, IMO.

By the way, when a teacher says "quirky" that is informal shorthand for "I don't think you are ready to hear the A word yet, but that's what we're leading towards", I think. I've never heard a child without autistic traits be described as quirky, put it that way.

I think your son sounds really interesting and obv very bright. He is only 5yo which is still very little so understandably he is still learning about social interactions and empathy.

My dd is 9yo and still learning how to cope with day to day frustrations without having a meltdown. I to look at other peoples kids and think 'what must it be like to have a child who is easy to be around all the time?' most days with dd there is conflict about something, she can moan, be argumentative, be ungrateful and be very unreasonable. Plus has issues around pain, so the smallest of injury can result in sobbing fits.

It is wearing but I also have moments where she can be so lovely and so kind, as my dad says it is the grit that makes the pearl

I now try and set up expectations before doing anything, I expect you to listen nicely, I expect you to play fairly etc, I give fair warning if we are moving from one thing to another and I praise and look for the positive when I see it. Age 5yo was when I found reward charts most useful, she would get a gold star for being kind to a friend, sitting nicely at the table, helping mummy etc and when she got 5 stars could choose something from the treat jar. It really worked as an incentive.

I found with empathy talking a lot about feelings and noticing dds feelings helped, so saying things like 'that must have made you feel sad/happy/cross' etc and also 'how do you think you would feel if someone said something unkind to you?'

There is a feelings book for kids by Todd someone which is quite a good conversation starter.

Wideeyed, try giving your son advance warning of when he will have to stop doing something. So instead of letting him play on the castle then just stop him the way you would other kids - tell him he an play for say 10 minutes and then give him warnings that his time is almost up.

So for instance you could leave him to play then walk over to him when he has a minute or so left and say ok, you will have to come off in a minute, or when mummy counts to 20.

You could also tell him what is going to come next because the world can be a very bewlldering place to youngsters and it helps if the child knows whats going to happen next.

OP what a hideous time you've had from some posters who really should know better.

The honesty of your posts should show to anyone how anxious you are for your lovely boy to find an easier path through life.

There's been some great advice too though. Be prepared for the class teacher to say he's fine, especially if she's new. I would talk to the SENCo.

At the same time have a chat with your GP. List, video, document. Read the various books recommended.

You sound a committed, caring parent. Read some Tony Atwood, The Out-of-Sync Child, The Explosive Child and it may give you some ideas, it may not.

I agree he sounds a very interesting and clever boy. I think you also sound like a nice mother.

From what I've read/experienced there are a lot of characteristics that over lap with children with ASD and those who are highly sensitive.

And of course ASD can't be diagnosed by eye contact as it is just one small aspect that is sometimes a feature. It was with my son anyway.

I'm an only child and wasn't interested in making friends with other children until I was 8 or so. I would always rather stay with adults and would never just go off and "run and play" with other kids. I gradually got better at the social stuff and as an adult rub along with people pretty well and make friends easily and am quite a confident person. I agree with the other excellent advice here, but I think the friendship side is less of a concern at his age.

I agree with lastlines' last post!

Lastlines, I have to admit I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would come on and tell us more about it. I couldn't give you more info but it is definitely worth looking into it, because the therapy is different and I have read many success stories. Dc2 suffered a medical trauma at 2, and the doctors were very helpful and informative about the potential psychological affects, and I think he is doing fabulously now.

The psychiatrist is Bessel van der Kolk, MD. I think that he is a yale professor and researching effects and therapy for early trauma. He made sardonic humourous references to BPD as he was a forerunner in research for that 30 years earlier (or similar).

A question for the posters who are saying "tick tick tick" re the spectrum boxes - what help is available? I thought that unless he was struggling at school there wouldn't be any help and it would simply be a label? But I may have got that completely wrong.

I don't think the label is particularly helpful per se. The majority of families I know where there are autistic traits sloshing around don't have formal diagnosis (they are all home educators, so it would be irrelevant to daily life). You are totally right, momieplum - it's not that a diagnosis, or even an informal acknowledgement of those traits being present would necessarily lead to any state-sponsored support.

Instead, I think that it can be really helpful for a parent struggling to interact with a child whose responses to situations, behaviour, social interactions seem inexplicable, challenging etc etc to go "through the looking glass". They are surrounded by people whose children don't respond, behave, interact like their child does. So either they are a failure as a parent, or else their child is awful.

And then they read up around the autistic spectrum and around sensory processing disorder, and there are all kinds of connections. It doesn't mean their child is autistic/ has SPD, but it might mean that their child has autistic or SPD traits. And suddenly, the parent can begin to connect with a whole different subculture of parents who live with children who also have autistic/ SPD traits, and who are further along the road, and can offer them compassion and acceptance and advice about ways that work for them interacting with their quirky children.

Getting a diagnosis opens up access to support and understanding in my experience. It was a very positive thing for my son as we can start to understand his behaviours and prevent him becoming overwhelmed a lot more now. He knows that there's a reason why he feels different to other kids and he's becoming proud to be autistic.

mine is like this i had him assessed he has some sensory issues but occupational therapy dropped him when they found out he has no problems at school the phrase he is good at school is like a death knell its like well he is great here therefore it is you what are you doing to your child to make him behave like that the answer is nothing literally! before he turned two he nearly broke my nose he has also blacked my eye to the degree where the health visitor came to have a private chat thinking my husband was battering me i had to explain no it was my "butter wouldnt melt" 18 months (ish) child who swung a toy in my face for no reason at all

the school think im nuts because he is brilliant there no issues at all top sets all the way apparently and he is only 6 years old

some days he can just be an aggressive little sod who i need to separate from the other two some days he is okay everyday he is exhausting

The hugging, jumping on others, punching - this is classic sensory stuff. He is seeking sensory input. He needs it, craves it, to cope.

There are lots of ways he can be taught to get this input in a positive way. My son rolls on a swiss ball, jumps on a trampoline, squeezes something called theraputty, hangs on monkey bars, sweeps, carries - anything that requires push and pull.

But physical contact sports and games are very challenging for him as he cannot manage unpredictable amounts of input. So I wouldn't take him to soft play or somewhere he was likely to be jostled or have to cope with smaller children in close proxomity. He needs very calm environments when around other children.

Which sounds like your son?

The books, the teacher appt, the GP etc - all good. But the most useful thing I did was to take my son to a pediatric occupational therapist. It was like walking into a haven where all became clear. The can accurately assess and, more importantly, give you the tools and techniques to help your son cope.

With regard to times that hve gone wrong, try if you can not to hang onto rage with him. Because he won't understqnd or be able to process this in a useful way. He is behaving in the only way he knows how to cope when ovewhelmed.

Your sadness at him not being like others is so understandable. I still have this at times. But once you starting fitting together pieces of the jigsaw, get good support and hook up with parents who understand, it does ease a lot.

I will attach a snapshot of symptoms for SPD, it may or may not ring some bells.

Your boy is obviously very clever with an appitude for language. Lots and lots of positives! And a lovely mum. He will blossom, you will see.

Best thing getting towards diagnosis is the support services. We got 1:1 with specialist Hv on anger management for ds and parental strategies for us (at worse it was a shoulder to cry on), group therapy for ds to socialise and practise turn taking, play therapist - all have helped immensely.

In my dark monents when he's screaming in my face or I'm carrying to his room for time out and he's spitting at me, I can hold onto the thought that it's the adhd talking and ds is in there somewhere and it will pass - psychologically helps me a lot and helps me stay calm

His fine motor is really poor. He struggles still to dress himself. Cutting, drawing and writing are a struggle. He can't do buttons up. He seems to have a problem processing visual instructions, he's much better with verbal instructions. Is that another sign?
Gross motor is very good though I would say.

OP sorry just a quick post. Your son's behaviour sounds similar in so many ways to my sons. We are currently looking at a diagnosis of ADHD and there are also sensory and attachment issues going on. From what you have said you have a number of concerns and I really would urge you to get your son checked out. Your fears may amount to nothing but if there are some special needs the sooner you can try and get some help for him and you.
Sending a hug, I understand how hard this is day in, day out.

I just wanted to come back and say well done for engaging. I had a friend with an out of control DS who refused to accept he was anything other than a 'proper boy' who slowly watched him and her become more and more isolated as people protected their DC from him. One sign from her that she accepted something needed to change would have got people back on side but as it was he became the boy everyone said "Ohhhh him..." about. You are taking a different route and that's to be applauded.