to think many people let their children make way too much noise in public places?

[LilacWine7]

I really hate the sound of kids screeching and yelling and misbehaving. It shocks me how many parents seem to think this is normal and ignore it. For example, in IKEA last weekend I was trying to talk to a sales assistant and there were at least 10 kids running round shouting at tops of voices, squealing and climbing on furniture (including climbing up shelving units in full view of parents). AIBU to think IKEA is not a children's playground? By the time we left I had a splitting headache.
It's the same on public transport, in waiting-rooms, in queues, in supermarkets, in cafes, at the local zoo, even during lamb-feeding session at pets corner. (BTW I'm not talking about the odd tantrum I'm talking about parents wilfully ignoring the racket their kids make).

Last week I had an appointment at early pregnancy unit (for HG). The waiting room was full of women who looked just as ill as I felt and was located on the actual ward, so lots of ladies in bed right behind the wall. A couple came in with 3 boys age about 2, 3 and 5. The boys were shouting excitedly to each other, jumping on and off chairs, shouting across the room, and even ripped 2 posters off the wall. It went on for 40mins, until they were called in to see doctor. Parents told them to be quiet a few times then just ignored them. How is this acceptable parenting??

When I was a child we were taught to be respectful. We didn't scream and yell whenever we felt like it. The only places we were permitted to make as much noise as we wanted were in park, beach, playground or in the countryside. We had a big garden but were reminded to keep noise down so it didn't upset neighbours, and there was certainly no screeching indoors. My NDN's kids frequently scream and shout in garden for hours, spoiling the peace for anyone wanting to read or relax outside. Why are people so selfish?

Has society suddenly become noisier, are more children spoilt brats nowadays, or have I just become oversensitive?

No, those crimes were covered up because the police believed those girls were "common sluts" who deserved it. Read the research into Rotherham, it had nothing to do with expecting kids to be seen and not heard. It had everything to do with misogyny, and not seeing those girls as victims.
And frankly GoldenBear, your comments are now becoming really offensive.

No. The system of allowing those with money and power to go unchecked is what has lead to these horrific events.

Goldenbear, you still haven't answered my comments regarding your views on Rotherham. Are you genuinely stating that people covered up the child abuse to teach children a lesson?

Furthermore, if the point that you are making is that children who are being told not to scream and run around wherever they please, potentially damaging items or other people and endangering themselves are in fact more susceptible to not reporting child abuse because they have been restricted from endangering themselves and others, then could you please support this with some evidence?

I think this thread has taken a very strange turn.

I came on to say that I agree with the OP. We had 2 occassions recently that were marred by other people's lazy parenting. A few weekends ago we spent a long day spring cleaning and once we were done we decided to take dd (9yrs) out for dinner to the local chinese. Fair enough it was not exactly a michelin starred establishment but it is very nice and a real treat to go and eat there (instead of maybe getting a take-away from there). We got there at about 8pm.. Dd all dressed up in her best gear, delighted with herself. it was busy there and really lovely to see lots of families with children enjoying a meal out. There was a happy buzzy background noise and I actually remarked to dh at how well behaved the children at the other tables were being and how nice it was to be there with dd.

Then a couple arrived and sat at a table near us. They had a baby in a car seat, he was about 5/6mths. Dd and I remarked how cute he was, out for dinner on a saturday night. They put his car seat on a chair at the table and sat down. After about 10mins the baby started to make unhappy noises, they both utterly ignored him. He was reading a paper and she was absorbed by her phone, texting. Baby's noises escalate till he is full on shreiking and neither of them interact or engage with him or each other whatsoever. eventually a member of staff went over and then the dad attempted to feed him a bottle without taking him out of the car seat. Baby refused the bottle and kept shrieking. They never once spoke to him or interacted with him. I found it very very stressful to listen to him cry. I could tell other diners found it stressful too. They ate their meal and left and we all breathed a sigh of relief. I have NO idea what was going on there, I know that. But they effectively ruined our night out as we attempted to chat over the noise of a screaming baby. It was an expensive night out.

Last weekend dh and I had a night away at a lakeside hotel, really beautiful setting. It was easter sunday and the sun was shining and the place was full. There was an outdoor dining area, expensive seafood etc. We sat outside to have dinner in the evening sun. Just the other side of the canvas wall thing marking the eating area was a terrace for drinks which was full. Loads of families in both areas and again it was lovely to see children sitting chatting with their families. We did not have dd as she was away visiting grandparents.

There was one large table of adults sitting in the drinks area, they had clearly been there a while by the collection of glasses etc. Having a lovely afternoon / evening out, marvellous. Except they had about 10 children between them (large gang, didn't count them) and the kids were absolutely running wild and were playing 'tag' around the tables and were darting in nad out of the eating area too. At one stage I had one possibly 7 /8 yrs old holding the back of my chair as he was being chased from the other side of the table by an older child so he was lunging left, then right to escape the chaser. They were shreiking and shouting at the tops of their voices and very worked up and they were having the best fun, away in a world of their own. Parents oblivious, guffawing and also very loud. It was pretty annoying over all but then one of the children ran into the path of a waiter carrying a large tray of dirty dishes having cleared a table and knocked the entire thing. HUGE crash, delph and glass everywhere. Kids runs off. Parents continue their chatter. The manager had to come and have a word. The kids sat down for ab bit then but were soon messing about again. Their selfish behaviour really ruined what should have been a lovely occassion for a lot of other people.

Kitekit
That behaviour you described at the hotel is sadly oh so common. Parents oblivious to other diners rights to enjoy their meal. It's terrible parenting. The trouble is, they wouldn't care if you asked them to control their kids. Probably get a lot of abuse for your trouble too.

How are my comments becoming offensive?

Children are treated as second class citizens, they're complaints to be viewed with suspicion, they are allowed to be hit and you're seriously wondering why I made a connection to these cases? They were not heard, they complained and no one listened!

People did listen. But as soon as it hit the hierarchy it went no further due to what I said and also what mariamin said.

Your comments are offensive. You have maligned my worth in the job I do for a start. I find that a rather unpleasant, personal attack.

Your comments were offensive, because you clearly know nothing about Rotherham. Those girls were ignored precisely because the police did not view them as children. Read some of the investigation into Rotherham. The police did not ignore them because they ignore children; they ignored them because they did not view them as children.

The job you do involves working with children and yet you seem to have 'no' understanding of them.

Mariamin, your remarks don't make any sense.

I have to engage with my own children now, I'll definitely find the conversation more enlightening!

What?

I've been doing my job, enjoying it and been very successful at it for 13 years, thanks very much.

Goldenbear, it may be for the best that you have left this thread given that you continue to fail to answer my questions posed to you and continue to express views which are absurd.

It's a shame that this thread has taken such a bad turn. I do apologise OP...

GoldenBear, hagofthenorth, Alice, and everyone who is on this thread in defence of kids being kids, or anti-judgey behaviour, or saying that this thread is child hating: let's be really specific.

Of the actual instances mentioned on this thread, which do YOU think are acceptable by NT children, and you would be happy to see your kids doing as normal acceptable child-in-public behaviour:

Running round shrieking in IKEA
Climbing on shelves for sale in IKEA
Ripping down posters in a GP waiting room
Shouting between friends in a GP waiting room
Jumping on and off chairs in a GP waiting room
Loud shrieking all day all weekend in back garden
Running round and round the tables where people are eating in a café, shouting
Running round tables in a restaurant, hanging on to the backs of the chairs of other diners, playing tag
Run around the GP waiting room, shrieking, and knocking into an elderly woman repeatedly.
3 children at the dentist, leaping on all of the sofas, swinging round the support pole and shrieking "look at me I'm a pole dancer.
In Pizza Express "The eldest decided to sit under the table shaking the leg which completely predictably eventually sent their ice cream sundae flying."
At the GP: "Children were pulling things of the reception desk, trying to run through the door to he into the doctors office, running into people with prams and elderly people, jumping off chairs."
Running around in Costa amongst people carrying hot drinks
In a restaurant: "ran into the path of a waiter carrying a large tray of dirty dishes having cleared a table and knocked the entire thing. HUGE crash, "

These are the exact scenarios and quotes of people talking about the behaviour of children. It is not a thread about meltdowns or tantrums, we know that there are people who tut and moan and judge about normal child behaviour, like the people who have made life difficult on flights or for children being children in their own gardens.

However, just because these BAD things happen, does that mean that people cannot comment on the behaviour listed above, from SOME children and parents without being told they are evil, judgey, responsible for Rotheram etc?

Please - go down the list and tell us which behaviour you would shrug off and defend and allow from your own children - if they are NT and older than 3.

Children are noisy.
children are sometimes noisy in public places.

So are cars,and building works,and people having fun,and drunk people,and trains,and planes.

What a wonderful world we live in full of colour and noise and laughter.

If anyone doesn't approve they can stay in with the curtains drawn.

But no ones complaining solely about children being noisy.

There is noise.

And then there is damaging property in public spaces whilst being noisy.

Noisy - yeah can't really worry about that although I think there are times noise isn't acceptable - but damaging property is never ok. It's not ok whoever you are.

I've been out with my friends who have NT children - those children have had tantrums - I've felt a pang of thank god it's not me this time empathy.

I'll be honest - there's been times that a few of those parents have allowed their children to damage things - I no longer see those people. I don't think a shrug of "they're just children" justifies ignoring a child who was (to give an example) melting chocolate in their hands and running it along the squash court walls and floors.
There were about 8 children including my DS running around the court. No one stopped them - they were being incredibly loud but just in a having fun way.
I'd had to stop my DS joining in chocolate gate - in fact when he'd decided 5 minutes later to try and join in again I'd made him leave, clean his hands and the spot he'd made a mess of.
There's no way despite his SN I was going to allow him to join in.

The difference between him and the NT children not joining in is that I have to constantly be on top of him helping him make the right decisions - he is yet unable to do that for himself.

I was waiting in X-ray at our local hospital, for an MRI scan. I felt shocking ill and a woman and her partner come in with 3 young kids. She was having an xray. The racket started immediately and one of them came screeching up to me, all snotty nose and angry little face and proceeded to remove the health education leaflets from the rack on the wall and throw them about. Nothing was said by either the mum or dad and they just sat there allowing the mayhem to continue and moaning about the time they had to wait and deciding who was going out for a fag first. I always think ill mannered kids are rough. And their parents. No manners and have been "dragged up".

YANBU

I've been in pubs where parents are too busy drinking to notice that their kids are causing havoc in the toilets, blocking the loos with toilet roll, peeing on the floor and basically just doing whatever they want.
Yes what a wonderful world of colour and noise.

Well I think there are two issues here. Some people who genuinely don't teach their children how to behave appropriately and some people who get absolutely no pleasure out of hearing or seeing children enjoying themselves, totally forgetting that they were children themselves once.

I live in Mexico where children are generally a joy and very well behaved, but we still have people in my building that hate to hear them enjoying themselves.

Im going to ignore the diversion the thread briefly took and say that yes, children behaving badly in public spaces is one of my biggest peeves. I have ASD myself and am really sensitive to noise, I particularly hate shrieks and repetitive noises.

What I do though is remove MYSELF from the situation with no glaring or tutting. I actually work hard to keep my face neutral and not judgy because I would not want to make anyone's day even more stressful.

There is a difference between a child that is running around and pissing everyone else off (the angry faced child in the hospital waiting room that was in the face of a previous poster would have been told politely to leave me alone) and a distressed child.

I know what its like to be over stimulated and freak out and would never judge, but that doesnt mean I have to listen to it. Im out of there in a shot!

Can I also add that I love to see happy children enjoying themselves, its a beautiful thing to see. Just keep the noise out of waiting rooms and restaurants

Having been a child with SN, I sympathise with EVERYONE involved; the child who cannot control themselves, the parents for having to deal with everything that this entails and for the people affected (who may have SN of their own) who get annoyed and distressed by loud small people (because children don't become people aT adulthood, they are people) who may also be invading their personal space. There is no right answer here.

Ohtheholidays- you have my utmost respect for being a decent parent in the face of adversity.
Why do we always jump in with "oh the child has SN". Rarely is this the case. Often it is simply parents who prefer their own free time to managing their children. The OP referred to parents chatting while the kids run riot. We've all seen this haven't we? I have two children and frankly if they weren't able to sit still and behave in restaurants we wouldn't take them to one. Sitting with your children, chatting to them, providing entertainment for them- it's not hard is it??

I have watched children run free in restaurants and almost knock waiters off their feet before now. I would never allow my kids to do that.

Looking after children can be difficult.
Children can be noisy and defiant and energetic. And sotimes they do this in public.
"Not being parented"
Oh puuuurlease! Ffs.
Its busy out there. Next week will be quieter.
Fewer cats bum mouths.

We were in the cafe at a local farm shop today with DS, it was a nightmare. He's just shy of 2 so doesn't really get the noise issue. Couple that with a cafe with paintings of farm animals all over the place and the end result is an endless stream of full volume 'MOOOOO's and 'QUACK QUACK's. DH and I tried shushing, ignoring, various distractions but DS was having none of it. I was very , but to be fair the other customers were all sniggering at his shenanigans which just made him worse.