to think many people let their children make way too much noise in public places?

[LilacWine7]

I really hate the sound of kids screeching and yelling and misbehaving. It shocks me how many parents seem to think this is normal and ignore it. For example, in IKEA last weekend I was trying to talk to a sales assistant and there were at least 10 kids running round shouting at tops of voices, squealing and climbing on furniture (including climbing up shelving units in full view of parents). AIBU to think IKEA is not a children's playground? By the time we left I had a splitting headache.
It's the same on public transport, in waiting-rooms, in queues, in supermarkets, in cafes, at the local zoo, even during lamb-feeding session at pets corner. (BTW I'm not talking about the odd tantrum I'm talking about parents wilfully ignoring the racket their kids make).

Last week I had an appointment at early pregnancy unit (for HG). The waiting room was full of women who looked just as ill as I felt and was located on the actual ward, so lots of ladies in bed right behind the wall. A couple came in with 3 boys age about 2, 3 and 5. The boys were shouting excitedly to each other, jumping on and off chairs, shouting across the room, and even ripped 2 posters off the wall. It went on for 40mins, until they were called in to see doctor. Parents told them to be quiet a few times then just ignored them. How is this acceptable parenting??

When I was a child we were taught to be respectful. We didn't scream and yell whenever we felt like it. The only places we were permitted to make as much noise as we wanted were in park, beach, playground or in the countryside. We had a big garden but were reminded to keep noise down so it didn't upset neighbours, and there was certainly no screeching indoors. My NDN's kids frequently scream and shout in garden for hours, spoiling the peace for anyone wanting to read or relax outside. Why are people so selfish?

Has society suddenly become noisier, are more children spoilt brats nowadays, or have I just become oversensitive?

It is down to poor parenting, and the entitlement expressed on this thread typifies the poor parenting I refer to. Children should be taught that public behaviour (in shared spaces) and private behaviour (their own homes/gardens) are different.
Public transport, restaurants, cinemas etc are there for the many, not the few. The number of people who think they can behave at the cinema as if they were watching TV in their own homes, is like an epidemic.

Oneinamillion

Totally agree

Really? Where on this thread has there been examples of 'bad parenting'?

Surely everyone's children play up a bit, or make some noise when they are having fun.

the thing that gets me with ds, is that it isn't necessarily when he is having a meltdown or upset. Sometimes he is just overexcited, or chatting - he can't speak, but makes noise when he is signing. Why would people tut or be pissed off at that?!

If I have to wait somewhere boring and uncomfortable like the surgery, I'm always glad if there are some kids to break the silence and tension. Too often, they just sit next to their parents, being well behaved.

The "special needs" argument is always used on these threads to derail the original premise.
Unless these "needs" are now present in 100% of children, surely it is obvious that they remain an exception to the original point being made?

Can't win though, if you take your child somewhere and talk to them and have an interesting discussion, someone on MN will accuse you of smug, loud parenting. Showing off the brilliance of your child and playing to the gallery.
When in reality you are merely engaging with them as you would if there wasn't an audience.

Exactly Hag. Plus, if you don't take your DC to the shops/waiting rooms/cinema, how will they learn how to behave in those places? Children are a work in progress and, even though it's become a cliché phrase on MN, you're seeing a snapshot not the whole picture. DD will be a little angel at the supermarket nine times out of ten but it's guaranteed that on the one time she whines, plays up, and messes about we will encounter every po-faced sad sack in the county :o

I think anyone judging other people's parenting or children needs to take a good look at themselves because I am 100% certain there will be something about them that could be judged in return.

One, what 'special needs argument'? I am not saying that all children making noise have special needs, some might - an onlooker wouldn't necessarily know would they?

Also, as I said, all children make noise sometimes, whether they have special needs or not!

My dd's are, on the whole, pretty good, but when they were younger, dd2 could wail like a banshee out of the blue, dd1 had enough whine in her to start an off licence and even now at 8 and 9 they get that hyper giddy giggling thing.

Yes people should be more tolerant of kids with sn and toddlers. But for older kids, why can't they sit on their backsides for half an hour and have a meal?

You're aware, of course, that older children can have disabilities and SNs as well, right?

The point that so many don't seem to see is that you just don't know if SNs are involved or not.

I hate this smug "oh, well of course if your child has SNs, and you're trying really hard to deal with it then that's different." No, it's really NOT different. Why? Because when you see my dc kicking off or being loud, you see a child kicking off or being loud. He doesn't wear a sign saying "I have SNs, so it's okay for me to be loud." You can waffle all you like saying "oh that's different, we can tell those with SNs" but you can't. You just can't. And saying you can is an utter cop out - because the first thing people who judge like that do is say "oh there clearly wasn't any SNs involved, just poor parenting." Uh huh. Been there, done that. Have actually been TOLD I was a poor parent because of behaviour directly stemming from dc's SNs. Interesting how people are much more likely to criticise and judge when he is NOT in his wheelchair (although don't kid yourself, we've had comments even then!).

And as far as "oh those with SNs try to derail these types of threads"... actually we try to inject a bit of reason into them and point out that it is possible that the child/children that the OP on whatever thread is pouring venom on may actually have SNs. You know, because we're hoping people will pull their heads out of their arses and be more tolerant around OUR child as well.

Clearly a wasted effort. Carry on bitching....

Why the need for speech marks oneinamillionyou ?

There is a difference between kids acting up on occasion to parents sitting back and letting them run riot as the expense of everyone else...damn right I will judge

BearFrills , you have described your DS brilliantly, the joy, the energy and unhampered curiosity, and that this makes him a real handful. In seeking a dx you are presumably hoping for formal recognition that he cannot meet NT 'norms' of behaviour, needs special strategies and educational support to help him etc. If ALL kids leap and jump and yell like your (lovely but glitter covered) boy the he'll fit right in and you don't need any diagnosis.

The point of this thread is kids who behave as if they, like your son, have no capacity to learn moderation or consideration, when they do and their parents are not bothered about encouraging them to use it.

There needs to be tolerance for toddlers, kids with SN, etc. That doesn't mean that every NT 11 year old should be allowed to play tag round my cafe chair.

And it doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to comment on it.

Of course I am aware..that's not my point. But you keep twisting words if it makes you happy

Alice, I agree a general philosophy of 'don't judge' goes a long way and will be of benefit to those, like you, who live with judginess.

However perhaps the more widespread willingness of parents who have NT children to allow them to run amok has prompted a level of 'enough, people! Teach your kids some manners, if they have the capacity to learn them!'

If more NT kids behaved reasonably perhaps there would be fewer cars bums.

Incidentally I never and never would make judgy comments to a parent, I just politely and directly ask the child if they would stop running round my chair, yelling in my ear or kicking their ball against my car, and I think It's fair enough for me to do so.

Ha ry

Great post

Thank goodness for Alice no need to add anything. Brilliant posts. Thank you.

I sometimes think the older generation just don't understand, in the 50s/60s children were literally out all day, not under anyone's feet.
These days you cannot just send your children out to play!
Children are not robots and make noise, for example I was on a 4 hour flight (I know this is a bit of a different example) with my family, my dd2 who was one devices to scream the whole way, it was a nightmare, I had people tutting and complaining to the air stewardess all the way back, (I don't really know what they thought she could do about it) I was desperately trying to stop her but she wouldn't. I was practically in tears. When the plane finally landed and we got off a lovely woman who had been on the flight have me a big hug and simply said we have all been there. I have never forgotten her x
When I see a mum desperately trying to stop her child having a tantrum I never judge, and always think, I have been there (obviously not just on the plane)
On saying that I do not agree with mothers who simply sit an chat while their children run round screaming, I was at the GP's the other day with my three, who were given stern warnings about their behaviour before they walked in. There were three mums with one child each, they were all chatting, their children were pulling things of the reception desk, trying to run through the door to he into the doctors office, running into people with prams and elderly people, jumping off chairs, all the while the mums carried on chatting and you heard the odd "stop it" no attempt to get up and stop them.
Don't get me wrong if mine were given free reign they would be in there, I could see into daughters eyes she would have loved to get up and run round but I have had to be so strict with them over the years as my husband works round the clock and I am on my own sometimes 7 days a week.

OP clearly seems to think that children should be seen and not heard at all times! Some of the examples she gives are in their own garden, at the zoo and at a child's petting area. Not sure what she is doing in some of those places unless she has kids. Child friendly attractions are surely a great place for children to make noise as is their own garden.

IKEA has specifically marketed itself as a child friendly place too. It has children's menus and play areas etc. For me personally I would not regard it as a fun, family day out but it seems lots of people do and are encouraged to by advertising. If OP wants to browse a furniture store in peace I think she could reasonably predict that IKEA in half term is not the place to do it.

Similarly restaurants. There are places I would not take my DC which I would save for a night I had babysitting but there are other places which are marketed at families with kids. Is anyone seriously going to Pizza Hut or Giraffe for a quiet, romantic meal? I definitely do try to teach my DC manners and I would not let them run around unsupervised getting under other diners feet but noise is less easy to control. I try to choose places with a play area or outside space and in that case I feel it is fair for them to make noise in those areas and I will not be tutting them or shushing them all the time.

Public transport, shops, waiting rooms come under places that you have to go rather than choose to go. Often you do not have a choice to avoid these even if you would like to. You don't usually have a choice to leave if they are playing up in these circumstances. If you are at the GPs then quite likely either you or the DC are ill and I would naturally expect parenting and/or behaviour might not be up to usual standards. Very often my NT DC behave beautifully other days, quite unpredictably, they make me ashamed to be their mother. I wish people would cut one another some slack.

I work with elderly folk and almost universally they tell me that they love the sound of kids playing out, love to see them on the school run. Often they say it's the highlight of their day and a reason not to move to sheltered housing. They want to see and hear young people. I hold onto that when people are tutting!

Great posts OneinaMillion. Of course children get tired and bored and over excited - that would be the adult's cue to step in and manage their behaviour, not just ignore it. Or better yet, distract them before it kicks off. Some parents don't feel any of this is their responsibility. Its lazy and entitled.

And IKEA may be child friendly, but it is most certainly not a 'child's playground' or a 'great day out' as described upthread. Last time I looked it was in fact a furniture shop.

maybe they should use gaffer tape on them.

I like your thinking there Meglet!

[wilfully obtuse]

Why should adults be told to stay at home because of the behavior of children?????

Yes people should be more tolerant of kids with sn and toddlers. But for older kids, why can't they sit on their backsides for half an hour and have a meal?

Exactly. Assuming no SN: Make your kids behave. That's what parenting is for. If you can't, don't take them out to places where they're going to disturb and annoy others. Very very simple. There used to be a time when children were not allowed in restaurants. Bring it back, I say, until they're old enough to know how to behave.

I suspect the legion of parents sitting on their arses doing nothing while their brats run around Pizza Express disturbing everyone are those who subscribe to the "don't give them any attention for bad behaviour" method, which is clearly bollocks and doesn't work.

I sometimes think the older generation just don't understand, in the 50s/60s children were literally out all day, not under anyone's feet. These days you cannot just send your children out to play!

But you see, yes you can. You just choose not to because you subscribe to the Daily Mail theory that everything's going to kill us.

Pizza express is so difficult, we tend to avoid it. You go in, dc know half the kids in there. They are running round, yours are a lot harder to settle than usual because of the atmosphere. It can also be difficult with other people.

I tend to go for child friendly places that not many children go to, Loch fyne for example is great and the ambiance is more conducive to the dds being happy to sit and colour.

What kind of generation are we raising that never considers others?

Why is it okay to allow your kids to climb the units in ikea? Yes it is child friendly that doesn't mean that they should be running wild....huge difference. Ikea is child friendly to encourage adults to go in and spend money, it is not one huge play area....take the to a soft play instead

YANBU I get fed up with the exscuses made for parents that don't parent "oh they might be having a hard time"

Or "the children might have a condition"

Hard time!
we have 5 children,we don't let ours get away with doing that and 3 of us including myself are disabled.My life expectancy isn't good at all!Were waiting to move from a tiny house that is falling apart(not because of us we've rectified loads already out of our own pockets and the property is rented)I've lost my Mum,a year before DH big brother died still very young,just before that his stepdad was diagnosed with cancer and just before that he found out that his Dad had a grown up son no one knew about.
And I'm dying.

The children might have a condition!
2 0f our children are registered disabled and both are on the highest rate of disability,which is hard to get for children especially younger children(DD is only 7)any one that knows the DLA system will have some insight in to how hard and how much work is involved with a child that is that disabled.Our youngest still sleeps like a newborn that is breastfed(no longer breastfeeding!)even though she's on medication to sleep.She has to wear special pants all day and all night because she has bowel problems,she has problems with all her joints,regularly has to go into a wheelchair,has problems with her eye sight and is on the more extreme end of the autistic spectrum.Can be very violent some times,is always very emotional,can't cope with change.They think she may have adhd and another condition as well.

Our son who is autistic also has dyspraxia,has autistic melt downs like his little sister,can't stand change and has food issues.

Our second oldest is going deaf bless him.Had numerous operations for ears,nose and throat and nothing has worked.

With all of this going on we still don't let ours run around and scream when were out.They always behave themselves because they know they have to.

If one of our children with asd start having a melt down one of us removes them from the situation.It's not fair to ruin anyone elses time out because of what's going on with our family.It's hard for us really hard but they're our children so our responsibility end of,it would be wrong if we let it ruin the day for anybody else.