Houseguest From Hell: The Outcome

[Lilylonglegs]

This is for all those who were following the original thread, asking whether I would be unreasonable to kick out my friend who was visiting for a week after her scathing comments and seeming reluctance to leave at the appointed date.

For all those who thought the story was not true, oh how I wish it wasn't, and for all those who advised me to drop the bag at the hospital. YOU WERE RIGHT.

I was feeling guilt at not sticking to the original dates and wanted to at least let her stay the next few days as agreed, however things came to light that let me know FOR SURE that she had no intention of leaving despite the mediation session and being blatantly told that she was not welcome.

Let me rewind back to yesterday. I called her at 5.30pm and she asked me to come back and get the boy. I said that I was not nearby (I hate the way how I was driven into basically becoming a liar like her) and she said that the other friend who lives nearby (who according to her begged her to stay in her house) who she met in France (let me call her French Friend) can come and take him. I said that was best as I didn't know what time I was coming back. She said that she would call her and make the arrangements.

I then called her at 9.30pm and told her that I still was not home, that I would stay the night at my mums house and go back in the morning as I had misplaced my key (another lie from me) She then made a joke that it was a good job they were keeping her in as if she had been out we would have both been "sleeping outside" I did wonder why she wouldn't go to FF if the son was there but I didn't mention it.

I asked what the doctors were saying and she said they took blood and she has to wait 48 hours for the results. I asked what the likely outcome was if there was a clot. She said that she would be put on treatment. I then asked where the son was and she told me that FF came and spent the day with her and was at the hospital between 1 and 5, and then took him home with her at 5. (Remember I spoke to her at 5.30pm and she was going to call FF to come and get the son.)

After sitting and thinking about it and coming to the conclusion that there was no way this was not just a bunch of BS (I would like to give her the benefit of the doubt, and think that just MAYBE she had good intentions but has a different was of going about things than me) I texted her at 10.30pm "Please send me FF address so I can drop the case off there."

There was no reply and I went to bed. In the morning I saw texts she had sent from 12.30am later that night. Saying, "You need to let me come out of the hospital. I cant stay as FF's house as she is under the government (she means council housing) and she called me a few minutes ago that her daughter has been rushed to the hospital so she will need to return DS to the hospital tomorrow morning so you need to have patience as this is a very difficult time for me. I should be out of here tomorrow because the results are out and everything is fine."

These were the texts that made me realise that she is really just a liar and a user. Plus I was with my mum when the texts came through and she went ballistic saying that I should not let her back in the house at all as she is spinning story after story. It is funny how everyone who desperately wants to house her goes on holiday or has some other emergency. It was also funny how at 9.30pm there was all this talk about results in 48 hours and needing treatment but then just 3 hours later, she is completely fine and leaving in the morning.

So I went home packed up all her stuff. All the bags of food shopping she had done (enough to last a few weeks not a few days) and the suitcase. I went to the hospital and dropped it on the reception at the ward. I do think this was somewhat cowardly on my part but I really didn't want to face her non stop sob stories etc. By the time I had got back to the car she was already texting me saying that I need to call her and we need to talk. I said "I had my own emergency. My mum has dropped your bags." She still kept sending texts saying that I should call her and that we really need to talk. No doubt she was still hoping on persuading me to stay. I then went a step further and told her "I'm already on the way to the airport. You already told me you had made other plans."

After this I guess she knew there was no coming back and then came the texts about me being heartless and wicked culminating and a rant about she knows I came to the hospital because the staff told her that it was me and my mum, how I ran away and didn't even attempt to see her on her sick bed. How she is seriously shocked by my behaviour, and she can't believe her life has come to this, how can she know such a wicked person.

I just said "I was not there. I don't know who ran."

That was the last contact I had with her. I am spending the day at my mums and although I feel guilty and not holding up to my end of the agreement by letting her stay until the time agreed I feel relieved to have my house back, as I don't think she would have left, and even now I am worried about her turning up, and even worse staying in the area somehow.

There have been so many sweeping generalisations about Ghanaians on here. I have no doubt this open thread will end up causing huge debate on one of the Ghanaian FM talk radio stations and it is a specific story as you say. Good luck OP with your friendships within that community. And I would have no doubt that HG would get to hear about it.

I haven't noticed any sweeping generalisations about Ghanaians nettymaniaa but what I would say is that, being of west African heritage myself, this crazy story makes sense to me. In my childhood we saw lots of these types of house guests. They stay forever and expect the moon on a stick but because of tradition of being welcoming to guests, you can't get them to leave. Health tourism is common too. Many I know were raised by relatives/family friends while their parents worked long hours to make money.

Op you've done the right thing. Put it all behind you and DO NOT open a can of worms by calling social services. Remember, they know where you live.

Hg and ff clearly had a plan to use your flat as a base from which to claim benefits and apply for a flat but you didn't comply so they'll be angry with you

Take care of yourself and your baby. Enjoy her, forget them. They'll soon find another mugg

Wow. To my knowledge you can be a valued and educated unmarried 40 year old although OP is technically divorced so OP decided her lying about her age was routed in cultural norms. She is bitter because she is from a polygamous family. Ok! It has been discussed and consensus is there is some ignorance here. But if you know about FM debate then I a. Suprised that you do not see the opportunity for OP to potentially out herself here and like you say these 'nutters' OPs words know where she lives. All the more reason to not be stoking it up. Without even goi g it o some of the stuff from the other post. OK then. I stand corrected I must be totally wrong.

They're valid points, netty.

If you think this thread could identify you, Lily, then you can ask MNHQ to delete it.

I am not personally bothered and agree with journey about some relatives. But many people who are expatriate love to listen to community talk FMs often for the ludicrous debate. It's part the joy of hearing the home language as if in the town centre, part entertainment part community cohesion. this specific community is a good sized community but you'd be suprised how interconnected it is. Everyone and if not everyone very many listen. and a particularly contentious topic can even travel outside these shores. I just think that Lily is out of her depth with her cunning friend and needs to be a bit more careful. She's already outed all the details that she thinks she knows about her friends intentions and deceits. It's very specific and there have been some sweeping generalisations here no matter what anyone thinks. Don't think about how I percieve IT think about how it would play on a phone in. Benefits tourism, polygamy, Blah blah. It's an open thread. Part of safeguarding is E safety.

It's one thing having a tradition of hospitality, but this woman seems to be more about lying, obtaining money under false pretences and having dodgy relationships with unsuitable men - is that also Ghanaian culture?

Because there are people like that in the uk too - and that is one of the reasons we have social services - because they make unreliable and sometimes dangerous parents.

Netty if it isn't applicable you you or anyone you know then why take offence. This is one person's story and not to say everyone who is Ghanaian is like this. My mum is Nigerian and Ghanaian and it people spoke about 419 (fraud for those not in the know) it wouldn't offend me because she is not a fraudster and to pretend that fraud is not a problem amongst that community is simply burying your head in the sand. I don't think this generalises ALL Ghanaian people because practically All that I know are great people. There is a stigma in general amongst Africans about unwed single mothers and the pressure to have children is MUCH greater than it is here. You can choose to disagree but then we will have to do just that agree to disagree. I have traveled ALL over and I see the differences.

Sorry lily for OP on the 4o and married read HG. Can't find my glasses.

And of course I have never travelled. I wish you well. Stay safe and in the light of all you have revealed I am suprised you started a mumsnet thread about it as it now seems you are au fait with the nature of your friend and her type. The initial posts presented as all shocked about the situation. Something is not right here. But as you say let's agree to disagree.

I think I just posted and it Disappeared! I don't think this thread makes out Ghanaians to be any kind of way, as practically all I've come across never had an issue with. My mum is Nigerian and Ghanaian and if someone were to talk about Nigerians and 419 (fraud for those not in the know) I wouldn't feel offended because even though my mum isn't a fraudster it is an issue in the community.

With regards to being an single mum there is a stigma in African communities in general, as well as being older and unmarried, as well as even just being a certain age and NOT having children. The pressure is immense, more so than here. I have travelled ALL over so speak from being to a lot of countries and seeing the differences. This is not to say "oh how terrible" but there are marked differences because family is VERY important.

Sorry for the double posting. It looked like my message had disappeared but it looks like it's back! Netty I am not saying you have NEVER travelled. I don't know why you would take offence to everything I say like it is some attack on YoU personally.

Good Morning Lily . I hope you and your baby are well today and thanks for this thread, and you are a Master Thread Maker.

There's travelling and then there's travelling , it's the insights we gain from it that help us to understand our own cultural differences, it's not just what we see when we are abroad, it's how it makes us think about things too. This thread has demonstrated some of the 'narrow' views that we in the UK, and on MN, can hold. I hope you and your baby go out and enjoy the sun today.

Thanks float I'm sure you know what I mean. No need to get in a "Travel off" Now that I can use my washing machine freely any time I like without being chastised for the noise it makes. I'm gonna do my washing and hopefully we will catch some sun today!

My 'Gone Fishing' sign has just gone up - have a great 'normal' day.

In my former job where I worked with foreign documents all day, it was quite common for there to be discrepancies in birth dates on non-European documents, not only West African ones, but also India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka and some south east Asian countries as well.

It's generally thought to be for a variety of reasons, not all of which are to dupe the authorities. Most of them were cultural norms, some countries didn't put a birth year at all, some put a registration date, not a birth date, some (obviously) used a non-roman script, some called more than child with the same name. Obviously though, some of them were also travelling on stolen docs/fake docs too.

I remain stunned at the child's level of English. If he is that good from an online course then it's a wonder any EFL teachers abroad have jobs.

The son has good English because english is his mums first language, and even after meeting the husband and having the baby her Italian was terrible, so she spoke to him a lot in English. Now after over ten years of course her Italian is excellent and the boys English has deteriorated because they speak mostly in Italian.

Drank sangria I have a Nigerian friend who came to the UK aged 4. She said her real age is a year younger than those on the documents because that was what was put when she came over. She said there was some reason behind it at the time, but she doesn't know what. I used to work in a uni and so many times the names/ ages on the educational qualifications wouldn't match up to what was even on the application form so I know what you mean.

Speaking generally rather than about this particular case, mistaking neglect and mistreatment for cultural norm has led to many children falling through the system in the past.

merrymouse totally hear you but this is no Victoria Climbie or Baby P

Math posted an excellent summation.

Mathanxiety, the trouble with your suggested report to the SS is that it still doesn't amount to anything that would trigger action from them.

He is here with his mother and she has no fixed abode here, nor is she a citizen of the UK. He has stayed in three different private homes since arriving in the UK two weeks ago, as well as a hotel and a NHS hospital where his mother was admitted, and one other place where he and his mother disappeared to while they were staying with me.

SS: So, you're saying that he's with his mother over the Easter holiday period and has stayed with different people whilst doing so. Has he ever been homeless during that period? Does he appear to be starving or doing without in any way? How is that putting him at risk?

She may or may not be an Italian citizen and she may or may not be entitled to whatever residence permit she has in the EU as she used a different date of birth from her actual DOB when she recently stayed in X hospital.

Just for accuracy, OP says she doesn't think she did use the wrong date of birth. SS response to the rest: her nationality and residence permit arrangements have no bearing on risk to her child.

She told me she left Switzerland two weeks ago, where she had been living for three months and may have been working as a prostitute.

SS: newsflash, being a prostitute doesn't automatically make you a bad mother.

I do not know when the child was last in school as the mother is a pathological liar. I do not know if the child's Italian father has any idea where he is or who he is staying with

SS: So, you think he may not have been in school recently and his father may not know where he is, but you don't actually know. We have no jurisdiction in Switzerland and no means to check their schools and we're not about to use our limited time and funds on a totally speculative investigation. Ditto with tracking down the father: if he's not happy about the situation no doubt he will take the appropriate action through the authorities in Italy.

The child and his mother are living out of their suitcases that appear to hold all their earthly possessions.

SS: That's not necessarily so, either, is it? She apparently has three bank accounts, after all. But, again, living out of suitcases isn't a child protection issue.

The mother has made no attempt to enrol the child in a British school

SS: How do you know that, since they have only been staying a few days with you and most of that time she has been out of the house?

and he should have been back to school in Switzerland or Italy this week but instead he and she are staying at the home of a random acquaintance of the mother's.

SS: But you tell us that she has a return ticket? How do you know she doesn't plan to use it?

Last thing I heard from the mother she was thinking of dumping the child with friends or relatives or even complete strangers for all I know in Ghana, with no reference made to the child's father in Italy or what he thinks of that plan or whether he has given permission to bring the child to Britain or to Canada.

SS: That's a matter for the father to pursue if he wants to. It isn't our function to police child custody arrangements between parents. And you tell us she's a pathological liar, so why do you suddenly put so much weight on this?

Return ticket was for today iirc.

Quite icimoio.