To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

I'm kind of leaning towards yabu, sorry, though nobody should be shoving your buggy around, it can get bumped in very crowded conditions. And I sympathise about luggage owners who fuss at being asked reasonably to move their oversized items, I don't know why they expect their stuff shouldn't be crammed in small space to make room for others. You try taking a bike on a train if you want to encounter bolshy suitcase owners.

You're supposed to fold buggies on our local trains, the rest isn't about you it's just people jostling to get on train quickly or being distracted by small chatty child.

I frequently use public transport in London and experience all of that even though I don't have children with me.

It is also a huge mistake to assume that anyone has/had young children and therefore understands what its like travelling with one.

Sorry.

I should also point out that most of the time when I'm travelling in central London I'm there because of work and have meetings an what not to get to (even some weekends) so would not have much sympathy or time for dealing with buggies and the whims of small children. I guess a lot of the people you encounter are in the same position.

Large suitcases/back packs however are always unreasonable!!!

I think yabu in that people have their own stuff to worry about and probably in always a rush to get somewhere. You should expect to be a priority just because you have a child. The woman on the train was rude but it doesn't mean it was because you have a child.

I don't think people will be as inclined to help you boarding if it means they're likely to miss the train.

Tubes are frequent, not a problem if you miss one. Buses can't really pull off if passengers are still boarding. But I have to say that if helping you with a buggy or not, was the difference between me getting my train or waiting 20 minutes for the next one, I wouldn't help. Sorry.

That said, I wouldn't barge past (I might run past and accidentally brush against the buggy) or do any of the uncalled for things you've described here.

*you shouldn't expect

Maybe don't take a buggy. They're a pain in busy trains. Perhaps fold it up.

The simple fact is, there are some very selfish folk about. Not just on trains and buses but out and about in shops, museums, queues for loos, everywhere. They don't make allowances for other people at all, regardless of whether they have DC with them or a greater need than theirs in some other way. They wont give way, hold doors open, offer their seat, they push and shove past you and tut at toddlers being slow or just being chatty.
THANKFULLY I find these sad miserable types are in the minority. We just tend to notice them more!

I agree with PHANTOM

I think you may be a bit paranoid, but there are miserable or self-absorbed people about. It's hurtful when people don't seem to care about our kids.

Now mine are older, I find the behaviour of some people with buggies really thoughtless and irritating, but I recognise the cast majority of people are nice, and thoughtful

Yanbu. We were in London for a long weekend with 4yr old ds and i felt like you. Ds was super chatty because he'd never been on the underground before and people seemed very cold or even annoyed. Getting on and off trains and through ticket gates was very stressful because people were right up our butt or cutting in. I think it's just the big city mentality. I live in a major UK city but it's a fraction of the size of London and people move for buggies and give up their seats to pregos and elderlys.

We noticed that there weren't many kids out and about with parents the way you see at home.

Don't let the bastards drag you down!

I'm really shocked at the lack of compassion shown to the OP by some of these responses. I live down south and travel into London by train regularly and would always offer to help you OP.

Phantom I couldn't agree with you more. Everything you say could equally apply to the elderly and those who use wheelchairs.

I think maybe I'm paranoid but mainly wanted to respond to say the problem is not really in london but on train journeys on big trains going out of london. I find taking 2 kids on bus (and sometimes tube) in London fine, even with a buggy (if you avoid peak hour). When I get these encounters it's usually on train journeys out of town / coming back in - the example in the original post was on a first great western train from Paddington to Worcester and today I encountered barging in the lift queue at ashford international. I should also add I usually fold the buggy once on the train (unless it contains a sleeping child, but that is rare!).

I think you are being a bit extreme by thinking that people hate children because they don't want to wait and dawdle behind you on platforms. There's nothing wrong with people running for trains or to get into lifts. Although if people are actually barging you out of the way to use a lift then of course that's very rude, but if can't imagine that happening on a regular basis.

The lady that nudged the suitcase back, did your DH bump her with it, or course her to have less room or something?

And sorry, but cute as it may be, sometimes other people's chattering children is just plain irritating. But as no one said anything, they weren't being rude.

I think YABVU in painting people as either oblivious or hating children because they don't make you and your children priorities.

Hi OP, Asford Intl is my local station and DH commutes from there daily. Had you met him today, he would have held doors, helped carry the buggy etc. You just had a bad day.

There are plenty of nice people out there but we only tend to notice the ones who piss us off or wind us up. Especially if they do ANYTHING against our precious DCs, of whom we feel protective and totally focussed on.

I think the problem is that people cut in front of those with kids cod they assume you will be slow but I maje every effort to be quick - in fact when walking with sling and buggy or double buggy I'm typically walking faster than those without - so when people cut ahead, barging me, and then i end up behind them in queue to get on the train I get a bit annoyed.

At 'suitcase gate' my DH moved a suitcase that was in the wheelchair area very slightly to allow room for the buggy. It didn't mean any less room for the rude lady - in fact on that one I felt the solidarity of fellow passangers who rolled their eyes at her rudeness!

on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!

If she wasn't the owner of the suitcase, then perhaps she didn't appreciate having it shoved into her space to make room for a buggy - not everybody is happy to sacrifice their leg room so that your son can sleep, when I think most people on a crowded train would expect you to fold your buggy to take up less room.

Im not expecting people to make my kids priorities, but I'd quite liked not to be barged or tutted at, that's when I think people hate kids - it sometes feels like they don't have a right to be on public transport.

I notice a difference in London. People much less tolerant. Much more individualistic outlook than in other areas where people do stop to help and just don't seem so precious and huffy around children

Dojo - see my post above for further detail on 'suitcase gate'. Moving it didn't intrude on her leg room - it was in the wheel chair area. Maybe possibly she would have had less room to outstretch her legs beyond the table, but that's asking quite a lot on a crowded train anyway

I've had the opposite experience, have always been surprised by how nice and helpful most people are when I'm travelling with kids.

I try not to show it but if I'm rushing and there's a slow buggy or children dodlling along in front it is mighty irritating. Sorry OP.

Mmm I agree with you to an extent.
I travel around London as an outreach worker so I'm often on 3/4 buses a day, 2 trains with a change and a couple of underground journeys with a change. Often I'm lovely and have the time and headspace to help with buggies and engage with chattery children. Other times I'm running late, or I've already helped carry a child or suitcase and I'm knackered, or I'm with a client or I'm trying to check where I'm going or contact my next appointment and I probably seem like a right moody mare.

The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic
YABU

You know, being a middle-aged woman myself, I do get sick of all the other people in the world thinking it's my job to defer to them, or help them, or get out of their way.

You wait till you're middle-aged, and you get ignored, walked over, not given service etc etc. Wait till you're invisible. Then think on it.

We are NOT everybody else's mother, handmaiden, or servant. Think about it.