To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

Cheby - yes, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about! Some people are amazing but others are complete arses and I seem to have encountered numerous arses recently.

I think you're not quite getting London etiquette, which is that you assume everyone is in a hurry.

I think YABU.

I took my 3dc across London on Tuesday and I was amazed how lovely people were - dd1 is 7 and dtds are 3. People on the tube have my dc seats. I've seen threads on here before about how dc shouldn't have seats as grown ups should have priority but that wasn't my experience. I've never had a strong opinion until Tuesday when dc were struggling to hold on and stay standing and I was trying to hold 3dc up. Plus people's back packs are dc head height so there were a few times I had to step in and ensure dc didn't get hit accidentally. But overall people on the tube were helpful and the staff too - one guard let us through the disabled bit and let the dc each swipe his card to open it. (I had our tickets in my hand). It was all very friendly. Sorry you've had a bad experience.not sure I'd take a pushchair on a tube though - sounds difficult. I'd use a sling but that's just me.

I don't have children. I don't massively like children. I would offer you the same courtesy that I would offer any other person (I am polite, well mannered, give up my seat for old ladies etc). But I wouldn't offer you any extra courtesy just because you're a parent. My need to get where I'm going is just as important as yours. And I don't want your child climbing all over me whilst I'm trying to get there. Thanks.

Who was ops child climbing over? Mine did there best to stand and hold on and then sat nicely. Dd3 did talk constantly to me which I totally understand may be really annoying but she was excited and although I reminded her to use her quiet voice I wasn't going to demand silence (she's 3 and that would have been an unwinnable battle.) Considering the number of loud drunks I've encountered in the tube over the years, a three year old chatting shouldn't be that big an issue. If a child talks to you just smile and look away.

Their not there - but it's 2am so don't be too hard on me

Oops sorry hadn't RTFT and probably projecting onto the OP based on a PP mentioning climbing children! I have been on numerous train / plane journeys where people have seemed to think it's an honour for me to have their small child dumped next to me (or in some cases on me). My best efforts to politely deflect and ask them to not touch my phone / kindle / please get your baby's legs out of my lap / speak to your mum and not me have failed miserably! I have no objection to kids chatting, making a noise, whatever, I just don't want to be involved in it.

I do see where you are coming from because I used to have to commute with my two when they were babies and there were some real bastards out there. One that springs to mind is the man who refused to step out of the way so I could get off the bus. When I finally managed to somehow manoeuvre around he he swore at me and shoved the pram out of his way. I was so happy the day we bought a car.

On the other hand, I recently travelled with a friend whose in a wheelchair and honestly she has it 100 times worse. I really do despair of people sometimes.

I'll be as couteous to someone with kids as I would anyone else but I don't think having a child with you deserves special treatment, most people on public transport are busy trying to get to or from work, I know I am

YANBU. I commute by train in South East. I think the busier trains get the worse people behave. Now I have a child of my own I'm a lot more sympathetic towards travellers with children (who I'd previously have viewed as an additional inconvenience to be irritated by). On the upside, there are plenty who are sympathetic and if you find them they'll be lovely . We could all do with being a bit kinder to each other (there's little sign of that on this thread sadly!).

This is one of an increasing number of threads with age discrimination overtones! These days I would hope that there is a reasonable chance that the 'middle aged' woman might have an important career/senior job and have every reason to be rushing to an important appointment.

We all have prejudices, we can't help that. If I saw a youngish woman with a baby and toddler I would probably assume SAHM so has all day to make the journey, whereas my time is more of a commodity (NB not more precious or important but certainly not less so).

I have children (now older) and I love my children and find them fascinating. But I don't expect other people to feel the same way about them so why would I want to engage with random children on public transport. In fact, I always try to avoid babies/toddlers etc on public transport. The worst case scenario is being stuck next to one on a flight where there is no escape.

It is the assumption that people with kids have all day that is part of the problem! In fact I'm usually have less time - I'm trying to get kids to / from somewhere as quickly as poss partly because they get tired etc but also Ive got somewhere to get to by a certain time! Having kids makes your life more busy and your time more precious, not less. The issues I get tend to happen on off peak journeys.

I didn't mean to be ageist, just pointing out my experience

This thread is perplexing me for a couple of reasons. I clearly stated the problem I'm having is far less apparent on london transport than on train journeys heading out of london / back into town, yet people keep saying people in London are busy. Secondly, there are a few replies from those without kids - bit confused as to why they are on a parenting website.

Why shouldn't people without children be here?

Secondly, there are a few replies from those without kids - bit confused as to why they are on a parenting website

Perhaps because an awful lot of it isn't about parenting and there are a lot of intelligent and entertaining posters here?

To answer your question about people travelling in and out of London by train, DH and I live up north and travel by train to visit family in London or the SE (which will involve changing stations in London). As train tickets are expensive, we usually book advance tickets which mean we have to get a particular train or pay extra. So it's quite likely that if we'd rushed past you in a London train station, it's because we're in a rush to get a train and don't have the time to walk behind someone who is walking (understandably) slowly.

These visits are usually for a few days, so we'll have luggage, and space for luggage is annoyingly limited even on long-distance trains (Virgin trains, I'm looking at you!). So it is irritating when people shift your luggage to make space for their stuff.

Your assumptions about people who don't need to use the lift are rude. I have joint problems, so sometimes stairs are an effort. Or when I was in early pregnancy and exhausted, I couldn't manage the stairs. I might have heavy luggage and need the lift, or I might just want to use the lift!

Likewise, on a long train journey I don't necessarily want to be chatty and sociable to anyone. Often I want peace and quiet to read and relax, so I usually book tickets in the quiet coach (DC1 is due soon so relaxing train journeys will soon be a thing of the past!).

DH will often offer to help people getting on/ off trains with luggage/ prams, but again, only if we have time and aren't rushing to make a connection.

Of course, I may be making the same complaints as you in a year's time...

Having kids makes your life more busy and your time more precious, not less.

See this is where you lost me. You aren't busier and more time poor than any other person on the train. You have NO idea what their lives are like. They may have children of their own they are trying to get back to. They may care for an elderly relative. Heck, they just might have a hot date that they are running late for. It's none of your business, and you are not any more important than anyone else, just because you have reproduced.

So you're not only busier and more important because you've reproduced, you're more deserving of using this site as well?

OP, the best thing you can do for your own sanity and wellbeing is understand that you are not 'special' because you have reproduced.
Really, millions of women all over the world do it every day.!

I would be polite to you just like I would to anybody else. But yes, I will often be running for trains, rushing to get a connection etc, because you see, as a middle aged women, I have a life, places to be , a job etc, even though you seem to find that hard to comprehend.

When i'm travelling I zone out with my kindle or listen to my music..- bliss.
I have no desire whatsoever to engage with anyone other traveller, least of all a chatty four year old.

YABU. People running for trains and lifts aren't doing it because they think ooo look someone with a buggy must piss them off by running barging past them or take up all the lift space. They are trying to get on a train or get to work quicker.

I commute from zone 4 into central everyday and I do recognise that in London the majority of people do walk heck of a lot faster etc. However I prefer not to rush about like that so I just make sure I don't get in the way of those who want to get somewhere quickly.

You almost have to treat the pavements etc. like a motorway - a slow lane to one side and the rest of the space for the those in a rush or walk super fast.

Sometimes if I need to rush somewhere it is super fecking annoying when you have a slow person walking right in the middle of the pavement - this includes people with prams and you just think can't you walk to one side so your not in the way. That is why OP you feel like people are barging past you because they are having to.

ilovesooty, well put.

I took this response from the Op to be in response to the comment about 'time' being a 'commodity' when you're not travelling with children - some kind of self inflated nonsense about a poster's very 'existence' being more important than a child and especially a parent with dc as obviously they don't work or contribute to society in any way??

Equally, those posters who don't have Dc have mostly implied they're more entitled than others to peace and quiet on 'public' transport. Personally, I can't stand listening to adults witter on loudly on public transport or in restaurants but I can't tell them to be quiet as we're out in 'public'.

Also, sooty, I'll bet you're one of those selfish types who takes the lift when you have only one bag and you could perfectly well take the stairs.

Dear me. Here's some helpful info OP:

• there are people without children on here because it can be a fun place to chat with other adults. Many threads have nothing to do with parenting
• many 'middle aged women' do not have children (ever increasing numbers in fact) and may have no interest in having anything to do with yours. As a previous poster said, they are not everyone's handmaiden
• young children can be bloody irritating, especially during a busy commute. Not everyone finds your children precious
• not everyone on MN thinks that becoming a parent turns you into a superior human being to whom everyone else must defer.

I have been working in the City for 18 years now and travel in to the capital via a 40 minute very busy train journey every day. Everyone has their own agendas, everyone has their own places to be. You know full well that the train will be busy and the area full of people rushing about but it is still your choice to make that journey just as it is mine. No one has a responsibility to assist you, they are your children and you need to find ways around getting on and off the train. I'm sorry but that is a fact of life.
I am 25 weeks pregnant and not once have been offered a seat - that's just tough I'm afraid! I also have two children which I have to manage every morning so my time is just as tight as yours. I leave my house before 7am and arrive back after 6pm, that's my choice. I choose to work in the city and I choose to travel how I travel. Suck it up.

It think YABU. I don't experience any attitude from others when I travel round London, but then I don't expect special consideration in the first place.

I get more annoyed by people just assuming I need help and trying to grab my pram without asking.