To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

I am a parent OP, but even if I wasn't so what.?Personally I find the non parenting threads much more interesting!

Last week in rush hour a mum with husband and 2 kids gets the potty out on the train and let's the lud do a shit in the potty on the packed train. Needless to say the cramped carriage got even more crowd except for where the family were. people like this piss people off. No excuses. Had kids, done the potty training without causing such disgust.

'My DS is a non stop chatterbox (and that's why we don't sit in the quiet carriages) and will talk for the whole duration of the journey, even up to four hours. It's just the way he is made'

Of course people tut and look irritated! He is not 'highly entertaining' as you put it or cute to most people, he is an annoying nuisance!! How would you feel if I talked loudly on my phone for 4 hours? How can anyone relax, read or work when you permit your child to chatter incessantly next to them? It is very annoying and selfish. I never let my DC babble on trains. I distract them, read to the them, play quiet games, get them colouring, encourage them to use quiet voices and remind them other passengers are relaxing or sleeping. Other people deserve some peace! It's disrespectful to think your DC has a right to make noise the whole time.

Goldenbear Sun 05-Apr-15 23:15:55
I don't think it's a good idea to let your child chat away to a stranger- personally my youngest is very anti-strangers and would not be interested in doing so! My bone of contention is with the idea that someone cannot possibly bring a toddler out with a buggy and also visit restaurants- it is perfectly acceptable to do so and you must be hugely intolerant/selfish if you think it is unreasonable. I would not dream of organising child care so that I could eat out in the day time- guess what my children have just as much right to be there as you and so do we as parents. We haven't forfeited the right to enjoy ourselves in having children. Absolutely ridiculous!

I too have DCs. I have also gone out to restaurants with them. BUT, DP and I taught them to respect other diners but not trying to engage them in chatter unless spoken to first, not throwing food around making it unpleasant for others, and so on. Hillingdon's point was that these parents were trying to encroach into her space, and allowing their child to be rude by chatting at Hillingdon.

Hillingdon wasn't trying to say their needs trump others, but some parents DO need to take a hard look at their own and their children's entitled behaviour.

In general, I am courteous, but while I will help if I can, I too have a life and sometimes the demands of the life may mean I can't help at that particular time.

The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

Having kids makes your life more busy and your time more precious, not less.

Secondly, there are a few replies from those without kids - bit confused as to why they are on a parenting website.

That's some charm school you went to OP...

Having kids makes your life more busy and your time more precious, not less.

Just saw this^^

Had to laugh. My childless friend is looking after both her mum and dad, so her life is far busier than mine, and I have DCs.

You sound an appalling role model OP, TBH - please let me know when you will be travelling, so I can avoid. I expect your DC are the ones who have tantrums in supermarkets as well.

Most people's DC have tantrums in supermarkets at some point cockeral to be fair.

Thinking that your child is highly entertaining or interesting to adults is the crux of a lot of these issues.
Believe me they are not. This is the deluded notion that lots of people with young children have!

I, and lots of other people on the train/bus/ plane or wherever will be thinking he is an annoying little brat who is overindulged by thei his parents.

Alot of people can be 'bloody irrirating'- slow walking old people for instance, they're not any different, the problem is 'people' being intolerant and lacking in patience. Civilised society functions on those pinnacles. To me alot of the responses justifying the OP's treatment on public transport represent what is wrong with modern society- Live by the law of nature, the strong eliminating the weak, no more treating others as you'd like to be treated yourself. Individualism and moral relativism abound- since when did it become 'ok' to abandon 'good manners' and 'respect' for others just because they're in a rush or late?

AIBU to think that many parents with children think the train belongs to them and that their sleeping bubba gets priority over, well, anything else and everyone else on the train and if bubba wants to "chat" then every other sodding traveller has to listen and look interested?

Welcome to real life OP. Most people will not be rude about you and your children travelling on public transport. Some people will help you. Some people, usually I find those same middle-aged women you seem to vilify so much, will actually sit and listen to the inconsequential and frankly piss boring "chat" that comes out of a 3 yr old's mouth. Because your children are the centre of your world, no-one else's.

And what's with the shouting and telling people off saying you didn't mean this, and you didn't mean that? The title of your OP is fairly clear. And very entitled.

I have been that mother on public transport (don't drive) but now, yes, I sit there watching the mother with the buggy and the 3 yr old thinking "please not here, please not next to me". Why would anyone choose to sit next to a 3 yr old? I'm not unkind, and I would help you, and I would probably briefly smile at your kid. But I'm not indulgent and am not about to waste my entire journey pandering to other people's whims.

And I believe the first rule of polite crowded public transport is that no matter what, the buggy gets folded.

I don't think having kids gives me any more right to help / space / courtesy on journeys than others but equally I don't think having kids mean I (& my children) should be denied these things. I don't expect anything additional from fellow passangers - sorry think my original post implied I did - but it would be nice not to be hindered. I don't think im in less of a hurry than anyone else but disagreed with the poster who said because I have kids I'm in less of a hurry cod usually these days I'm in a massive rush!! On a long journey my DS often spends much time being entertained by watching CBeebies on my iPhone with headphones in - id rather he didn't to be honest but it helps keep him quiet for other passangers. I'm not expecting people to be warm & friendly to him, though it would be nice if they didn't tut (have to say that doesn't happen every journey).

I appreciate its crowded and people are in a rush - I usually am rushing to specific trains too. With a buggy and 2 kids I make every effort to move quickly & I do usually over take many without kids when out and about (I naturally walk pretty fast) unless I have time to let DS walk (which is rare!!). I get annoyed when people barge past me only to walk slower in front of me.

of course I have to suck it up. It would be nice to not come away from every train journey feeling like my children were not allowed to be there but there's nothing really I can do about it - just posted as wanted to see if any other parents had experienced similar things

And as for non parents using the site - I'm just surprised - I would never have thought of looking at it before having kids!

I find that these days, to avoid having to talk to children on public transport, I put headphones on and turn them up loud. And if possible, close my eyes, it really shuts me off then. (And no, you won't hear anything coming from my headphones. I am partly deaf and the headphones are compatible with the T loop; you won't hear a thing.)

I'm an introvert and can sometimes find public transport overwhelming, so I'm not about to let myself get coerced into entertaining someone else's child. I've done too much of that, both my own and other people's DCs.

Luckily I drive. Hardly ever use public transport these days.

I'm suprised to be honest.

I don't live in London but when I used to visit with dd people always helped. I had a stranger offer to carry dds pushchair down tube steps every single time. People gave up seats on the tube without being asked when I was struggling to stand with a toddler. Maybe I' used to be quite hot.

Isn't public transport just one big annoyance In itself?

Before I learnt to drive people were really helpful on the train, always offering to give me a lift up/down.

I'd always offer to help personally.

Whilst a child constantly chattering might be annoying to some I don't think it's any more annoying than that person talking to loudly on their phone...or that person who opens their stinky egg sandwich on the train. Or people who put their luggage in the buggy space then tut when you point out you need the space for the buggy.

People on the tube are often fab - the problems I get are on mainline trains out of town.

I appreciate other people don't find my child fascinating but after rushing to get on a train (I think the fact platforms don't seem to be announced til 5 mins before departure creating a scrabble for seats) it's so disheartening to hear an audible sigh or grimace from a person near to where we sit. I'm not looking for other passangers to be super nice / talk to my kid, but those sighs make me feel like my kids don't have a right to travel by train.

Drank you actually sound really 'unkind' with your diatribe against '3'year olds- take a look at yourself, tbh I find it morally repugnant. This kind of attitude eptomises all what's wrong with 'society' now IMO- it seems people live 'natural selection' as a code of conduct!

People live by not 'people live'.

I lost all sympathy for you OP after your middle-aged women remark.
Your further comments about non parents on this site only compounded my feelings.

I too have children and am middle aged. I'm usually travelling on public transport for work and because I live some distance from London and want to go home at a reasonable hour to see my children I tend to cram a lot of meetings into one day - often in different parts of the City. I want to get there quickly and will take the lift wherever possible (despite looking fit and healthy I have a false leg and walking up a lot of stairs is slow). What I don't want to do is have to engage with anyone's chatty toddler when I'm on the tube or train as I'm working.

We have taken the children to restaurants etc, but they are sat with us - not plonked at another table. Like I said, if we want to relax or have time alone we will organise childcare.

It is the entitled attitude of some parents that piss off childless people and even other parents. Your time is not more precious than anyone elses. I was busy before I had children, I am busy now. My time is precious to me - I don't expect it to be for other people. Maybe you should organise yourself a bit better OP so that you are not always rushing everywhere all the time.

Fryone, equally, I think some 'individuals' need to take a look at themselves.

golden- Personally I find most 3 yr olds as irritating as fuck. Children are just small humans. I would be very silly (and sound a bit like a 1970s Miss World contestant) to say 'I love all children, I'd just love to sit next to one on a train'
Some I like, some I don't. Tends to depend how they behave funnily enough and how entitled and centre of the universe their parents are.

I think the difference you are seeing between mainline trains and the tube is possibly due to expected length of journey.

A child next to you on the tube is quite a transitory experience, 10 or 15 mins and people can move seats or just stand-up if they need to escape an irritating or noisy toddler.
On a mainline service you will be stuck for maybe an hour or so, until the next larger station or even longer. It is also harder to move to escape a wriggling, squealing or chattering child with indulgent parents. Mainline train journeys are also a chance for many to relax - reading, staring out the window or get on with their work.

Learning to respect other people's personal space is an important lesson for all children to learn.

Agree with you 100% zeezeek. It's the whole 'but I have a child! therefore I am special and so is he!' thing which is so irritating. It's like some parents think they are the first to ever have had one!

Zeezeek, has the op said that she expects you to 'engage' with her chatty toddler - she said he was chatting to 'her' but people are intolerant of that to. I'm sure you're an incredibly 'important' person with 'meetings' but you know what, you have to operate within a civilised society, it doesn't work the other way around- it operates around 'you'. Are you passing on your 'Indvidualistic' principles to your children- great example you're setting there. Children that grow up with 'that' outlook are the ones that are entitled IME not children that see their parents holding attitudes like the OPs!