To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

OP, I would say that some of what you (and MrsKoala) describe is 'standard bad behaviour' on trains and not necessarily linked to the fact you have a small child with you. I've also experienced people rushing past me then catching up with them and being stuck behind them, people being irritated if I'm taking a while to put my luggage somewhere (short person trying to use overhead luggage racks), noisy people on the train, and the idiots who stand on the platform in front of the doors and look offended when you ask them to move...

The main problem with public transport is the other members of the public :)

And I agree with a PP about the length of train journey being significant - if I was on a long train journey and someone with a small child sat next to me/ near me, I probably would sigh a little internally, because I know that small children can't be expected to stay quiet for a long period of time. I'd also dread being joined by a noisy group of adults, simply because they could be there for the rest of the journey. My ideal long train journey would be having a table seat all to myself in a half-empty carriage :)

What if your children just can't/wont be quiet?

Part of being responsible parent is making sure your children will be quite in some circumstances.

What about in a GPs waiting room, at a funeral, during a one minute silence, in a school room?

Mrskoala- are you suggesting that some kids will never be silent? That is irresponsible parenting.

Dido, where do you board this mystical train that is completely silent and the only noise being emitted is from children. I've already provided a huge list of annoyances that are experienced by many people on trains and adults are usually responsible for them. I was a commuter, my DH is a commuter and these are our experiences, you need to remove those rose tinted glasses, as the 'silence' you describe is not reality!

Lotta, I seem to remember you work with children or am I thinking of someone else, I find that quite concerning- of course children get excited by train journeys, children get excited by lots if small things. They get excited by things at home too, they are 'childlike', have an enthusiasm for life, they are motivated by sheer joy not stuffy and worn out.

Frankly, If a child on a train chatting a bit loudly has the ability to ruin your whole journey, maybe you should just toughen the fuck up- it's one journey!

MrsKoala - what should you do if your children can't/won't be quiet?

surely it depends on length of the journey and age of the children - eg can they be reasoned with etc?

Golden if its a short train journey (commute) then a cute child chatting loudly - well it can be 'nice' but it can also be a bit distracting if you're trying to work/tired etc. It's a bit like if I decided to chat loudly whilst a child/baby was trying to sleep...

Perhaps one reason why people get irritated at children's noise, is that it might be harder to tune out than the other noises on the train.

I can ignore phones, adults chatting, etc, but I do find it difficult to tune out the voices of very young children and toddlers, which is why I resort to headphones.

Yes, I do work with children and yes of course they do excited. However, its the adult's job to help them to learn to behave in appropriate ways in public. Too many parents are apparently deaf to their children's yelling, as pointed out by many posters upthread. It's a public space and everyone needs to be considerate - children can't manage that by themselves, which is where the adult comes in. Or not.

And it's not 'one journey' - its nearly every damn journey!

Well thanks for the lesson Full i had no idea that's what a 'responsible' parent should do. As you are giving away all these pearls of wisdom would you like to enlighten me how i would force my 2.6 yo to be quiet if he doesn't want to. Short of gagging him nothing i have tried has worked so far.

And no, he wouldn't be silent or sit still at a funeral - hence having to remain outside my grandmothers funeral last summer. And never in the gps waiting room either. I'm hoping by the time he gets to school age he will understand more about where and when to be quiet, but at this age he just doesn't.

That you find it difficult to tune out is neither here nor there, what do you expect parents to do - gag them?

The noises young children make are comparitively inoffensive and their presence is not as intimidating as drunken, office loudmouths. Equally, I find people who monopolise space with their physical presence much more irritating as you are stuck with someone encroaching on your personal space for the journey and that person being an 'adult' should know better!

The silent train is the 7.22 from my station to Charing Cross.
Try it!

And the journey takes just over an hour, so any constant noise for that length of time would indeed be an annoyance to us all.

I'm on the train to Worcester now OP - on my own with a baby and a school age child, two suitcases and a buggy. Had help onto the train from staff and offers of help on the train with folding buggy - I didn't NEED the help and am quite reluctant to take it as I hate putting people out.

Everyone is quite nice usually save the odd asshat.

I think the key to public transport and kids is to plan ahead and expect the worst. Try and be considerate of others. We arrived an hour before the train, loaded with snacks and activities and made sure we were first to board. Sorry that sounds horribly smug and I've hadn't share of shite journeys but there is a benefit in a) being prepared and b) being zen about it!

Dido, sounds wonderful! Lucky you

A lot of people on this thread are highly intolerant of children- casually condemning children as if they're mostly a group of troublesome people within our society. It is really worrying and morally wrong to find this level of intolerance acceptable. All the parents I know do effectively guide their children and teach them how to behave. It is a small minority of people that don't do this and that is where people's advice should be directed.

I am not intolerant of children- just noisy ones that disturb the peace.

Dido, even if it is, why do you think it is acceptable to be intolerant of a talking child that boarded your 'quiet' train? Your special journey isn't sacrosanct, it would be rather arrogant to believe so.

I find London transport fine with kids and that people are generally helpful, probably because they have taken their own children on the bus/tube or been a child travelling that way. But I know a few families from commuterville and indeed other largish cities whose children have never been on public transport which might explain the attitude of your fellow passengers.

If this is what some of you are like about children on trains i dread to think of what you are like if they board the same plane as you

Probably because I don't really like children! OK?

Assuming that is the only answer you wish to hear.

I find this notion that commuter trains are zones of utter quietness which everyone should obey ridiculous. I'm not talking about tantruming toddlers here but even conversation on commuter trains is apparently not tolerated. Except it's not the law - it's the unwritten rule of the self-entitled commuter....

There is a difference between e.g. a child having a screaming tantrum, or even running up and down a carriage, and a child having a conversation with his/her parents. No, I don't think that screaming or running down aisles should be tolerated, but equally a chatty child talking to its parents is just a chatty child, you may not like it but the constant tap tap tap of a laptop keyboard or the dim music from headphones or the chat of someone on their mobile phone or the constant text tones can be just as irritating. but no-one would approach an adult and tel them that they were breaking some unwritten code, so why should children be different?

I travel around london a lot and on the whole I find people to be immensely helpful and friendly. I am usually travelling with a guide dog though not a small child. But what I do find is that there seems to be no middle ground between very helpful/friendly and utterly intolerant/obnoxious.

At the weekend I was tutted at by someone for asking them not to push past me on an escalator. I explained that my dog needs a clear run off from the escalator and that if someone were to obstruct that he could get caught. Experience has unfortunately ended me up with a sprained ancle as I had to let the dog go to run off ahead of someone who insisted on pushing in front of me. They weren't running, they just pushed in front. So now I block the escalator when I get on (having first established that there are not a lot of people in front of me, I will wait if need be) and then I block off the escalator so no-one from behind me can push past. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much of a hurry you're in, you just can't always push into where you want. And anyone who wishes to object to me yes there is an alternative, I can ask a member of rail staff to stop the escalator in order that I can walk safely up/down it with the dog. That way your rush will be delayed by about five minutes instead of the 30 seconds in which i block the escalator to ensure my dog's safe run off it.

This thread is bonkers...
So, adhering to "unwritten rules" (ie custom) is entitled, but blocking escalators or switching them off (safety issues anyone?) is not?

God help the poor and needy! (as my dear old dad used to say)

I genuinely don't mind children chattering and laughing on the train. But I do find that a lot of parents with buggies are really inconsiderate - have a tendency to block the whole pavement/walkway and drive the buggy straight at you or walk very slowly but give you dirty looks if you overtake. The fact that you routinely experience people pushing past the buggy does kind of suggest that you might not be allowing space for people to overtake you.

Dido, despite the attempted implication I'm really doubtful of the 'irony' in your answer.

Rereading breadwidow's recent update - yeah, I get that if you have a buggy and lots of bags on it, etc, it's going to take you a few mins to sort it out. That's why it would be nice if you let people behind you past you while you do it! It's not reasonable to want not to be overtaken but also time to sort out your stuff.