To think that many train users are completely oblivious or maybe they just hate kids

[Breadwidow]

I live in central london with 2 DCs (3 & 7 months). We don't have a car so use public transport a lot. It's hard work with 2 obviously but increasingly I've found that there's an additional aspect that makes train journeys out of london even harder than they might be already: the behaviour of other passengers. This rarely happens on London transport but on trains I now often find that people are totally caught up in their own world that they do things which really hinders our journey with two kids - in fact sometes it's as if they hate the kids. Examples of such behaviour are:
Running to board trains / lifts cutting ahead of me / OH with the buggy and def not offering to help - especially bad in terms of lifts where the adults cutting ahead are usually carrying a small bag and could take the stairs!
Running along platform, nudging buggy out of the way, towards train tracks
Being pissed off (sometimes very vocal with it) when we ask people to move suitcases / bags to allow room for buggy or to allow DS to sit down (on a recent journey DH slightly moved a suitcase to allow room for buggy containing sleeping DS only to have the suitcase pushed back with force against the buggy - he pointed out to the passenger who pushed the case that they should be careful as DS was asleep in buggy and was told to 'not make a scene' by the middle aged woman who had pushed the suitcase into the buggy - hilariously it turns out she wasn't the owner of the suitcase!)
Making a lot of glances / tuts at DS (3) who is generally pretty well behaved on the train but is quite chatty
Maybe I'm just a bit paranoid but now every train journey seems to have 2+ examples of unhelpful or sometimes rude behaviour. The main perpetrators are middle aged women who you'd have thought would have once had small children themselves and maybe be more sympathetic!

Yanbu op. I'm in a similar situation. I have chosen not to have a car to reduce pollution and I can't afford one anyway
I've only got one dd so it's easier for me on public transport. I take the sling mostly bur there wee times when the pushchair is necessary. I'm lucky that mostly people have been nice and helpful. But those who are rude and make you feel uncomfortable for being on public transport are being unreasonable. Any people who are bringing up children without a car are doing something positive to help the planet. We have every right to be on public transport, -even at rush hour.

Hmm. I would never be rude or shove anyone's buggy or luggage, it's one of my pet hates. I always offer to help too if I see someone struggling with a buggy (or indeed a heavy suitcase) on their own. Ditto wheelchairs.

Of course kids have a right to be on public transport; it's just that I don't think their rights should eclipse my rights. I don't have kids and doubt I ever will; I just don't get the appeal of toddler chatter and don't know how to engage with it, so I probably do look pissed off around chatty children. Sorry. That's just me. But I bear them no ill will.

Also as others have said there are rude fuckers everywhere, and they are very concentrated on London transport especially in rush hour.

And I have to say that the rudest person I have ever encountered in my life was the woman who accused me of 'shoving your bum in my son's face' when I attempted to board a train in a perfectly orderly manner at Oxford Circus at 5pm on a Saturday...

Antihop: thank you, exactly how I feel.

Hillingdon, why does your special little treat for yourself trump a parent's need to relax or even a child's need to exist in this world and be respected as a fellow human being. It's a rehetorical question- it doesn't!

We are all entitled to a treat or a need to relax without someone's child interrupting. If parents need to relax then they should organise proper childcare rather than rely on some random person in a restaurant/cafe/whatever to do the job for them.

Thank you Zee!

One time I got on train to find the bike storage area stuffed with suitcases. I moved some bags aside & lifted others to the mostly empty shelf above. One lady got annoyed and shoved her suitcase right back where she liked it. I just stared at her & then said "Oh well, if you prefer my dirty bike wheel leaning on your suitcase then fine by me."

I have children but I still find nothing worse than a small child "chatting" to me while the parents look on indulgently. Yes this makes me a miserable fucker but it grates on me that people think that everyone wants to chat with their children and if they don't they are child hating witches. Maybe Ive just had a busy day at work and wants to get on the train quickly and grab a seat and get home to my children who I actually want to chat with.
As for people bragging the buggy, maybe they felt that they were there first and you were being a bit entitled by presuming your needs trumped theirs.

I would have been a bit narked at having a suitcase (particularly not my own) pushed at me by a buggy, without an excuse me being uttered. You don't think that perhaps your overly assertive and entitled (because you happen to have young children in tow) makes people behave negatively towards you.

People with or without suitcases are as entitled as you to use a lift.

^behaviour

YANBU OP. I moved out of London recently but for 9 months I commuted into central London every day from Zone 3 with DD in tow. When she was small I took her in the sling, but a lot of the time I needed to use the buggy. I tried to stick to buses but did need to use the trains a good few times a week.

Other commuters were a mixed bag. I will never forget the wonderful paediatrician from St Thomas' hospital who sat next to us on a hot, stuffy, crowded train when we got stuck outside a station for an hour. DD was overtired and howling and I had no battery left on my phone to call DH or offer entertainment. She produced bubbles from her bag and a game on her phone, then helped us off the train when we finally got moving.

But mostly people were arses. I had the running in front of the buggy thing all the time, quite often to beat me into the lift so we couldn't fit in or so they could go before we got there. People deliberately taking up all the fold down seats (in the areas specifically marked for buggy storage) when plenty of other seats were free, then getting ratty with me when I politely asked them to move.

So glad to not have to do it anymore.

This (middle aged, thanks for the generalisation about us, btw) woman would help you get your buggy downstairs. She doesn't want to talk to your child - in fact, she'll ignore him - and would prefer it if you either taught him that not to babble at everyone or that if he does not everyone is going to think him as cute and interesting as you do.

She has a life too, meetings to get to, transport connections to meet and isn't there solely to convenience you and remembers the days when she too had two babies to get around with on public transport and when the norm was to fold the bloody buggy and not get in everyone else's sodding way and then claim the population is child hating for daring to suggest that others do the same.

Why don't you use a baby carrier for the LO and hold the older child hand or get them a scooter.

Scooter on a railway platform? Good plan . . .

If you don't mind me asking what pushchair do you have as most of the ones I have seen are not appropriate at all and are usually huge metallic framed ones which are un foldable

It a good idea the LO is a in a sling whilst the OP can hold the scooter or get a strap to control it.

I don't think it's a good idea to let your child chat away to a stranger- personally my youngest is very anti-strangers and would not be interested in doing so! My bone of contention is with the idea that someone cannot possibly bring a toddler out with a buggy and also visit restaurants- it is perfectly acceptable to do so and you must be hugely intolerant/selfish if you think it is unreasonable. I would not dream of organising child care so that I could eat out in the day time- guess what my children have just as much right to be there as you and so do we as parents. We haven't forfeited the right to enjoy ourselves in having children. Absolutely ridiculous!

I thought when I moved here I would have this sort of thing. However; when i do travel with DS (fairly often), I've found people to be nothing but polite, and I have never not been offered a seat when with him so he can sit on my lap and be safe. However, DS is 4 and I only did a few trips with a buggy about a year ago; and that was outside of peak times. Having a buggy may be a different story.

Society is definitely more intolerant of children being children than it used to be and people are so terribly self- important, in London in particular.

I find baby boomers are pretty intolerant compared to old, old people. Tuts, selfishness abound, generally annoyed by everything even though they're buying up half of waitrose or marks food hall so why the hell are they so miserable on mass. I am visiting my Mum in Shropshire and we went to a world heritage site Museum, the DC were just looking at the stuff they sell in the shop at the entrance point- the 'boomer' behind the till was so off with us and soar faced because my youngest was looking at stuff. This museum is aimed at children as it has 'Easter' activities. I see this all of the time and it's incredibly annoying.

People who can't abide a child having the audacity to speak to them, perhaps try saying that you don't wish to talk right now. Even if the child doesn't understand, the parent will.

Maybe I shouldn't have described DS as chatty - he doesn't babble at strangers - just talks to his parents, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I do need to get a new buggy as it happens as old maclaren has very recently given up the ghost and our double is not good for trains - any recommendations for one that folds small but also reclines fully flat?

On my own I cannot have baby in a sling, deal with DS & carry luggage - a buggy is needed too. Travelling without one is great, but impossible without OH present.

YABU over the lifts thing. You have no more right to get in the lift first ahead of anyone else that needs or wishes to use it. I, for example, have severe vertigo and cannot use steep stairs or even manage to get on an escalator. You wouldn't know that by looking at me but it seems you would certainly judge me for using the lift.

You're right op - this thread is annoying

YANBU. A little courtesy goes a long way. Unfortunately, there are many people who don't have an ounce of it and the rest of us have to deal with/come across them. My DS is a non stop chatterbox (and that's why we don't sit in the quiet carriages) and will talk for the whole duration of the journey, even up to four hours. It's just the way he is made. I am not going to stop him from talking to me. Most people seem to tune him out, or indulge him (he's highly entertaining), but those who tut and make snide remarks? I just ignore them because my revenge is DS still chatting away and there's another couple of hours left on the journey .

Rude people exist everywhere OP, speaking as a middle aged woman who was barged by a pram on a train out of London last week. I was facing out of the closed doors as my stop was next so didn't see a woman with a pram get on behind me who then shouted at me that she needed to be exactly where I was standing as she couldn't stand anywhere else with her baby, while shoving it into the back of my legs. Normally I am happy to move for anyone who needs it, and who asks politely, but entitled rude people who think the world revolves around them - whether or not they are with pram, "middle aged" or whatever - do fuck me right off. ( Not that I'm implying you are among their number.)

I'm from central London too and use public transport a lot as I don't drive. I haven't had the same negative experiences on trains as you tbh. I only have one DS and he's out of a pushchair now, so that makes things easier and I've never really had to ask for help. I've always folded his pushchair on trains though as there's not really much room for them. He is not the chatty type either, he tends to have his nose in a book for train journeys or watching the ipad with headphones.

When I'm travelling on my own I tend to focus on my own journey so won't always notice others, and I usually bring my kindle or other work to focus on so I'm not the type to engage in chat with strangers of any age on the trains!