about DPs parents and a car seat?

[passmethewineplease]

Honestly need to hear if I'm being unreasonable and a little anxious/paranoid.

My DS is 17 months and is currently rear facing due to it being safer. I don't think MIL really understands why I do it tbh.

They've been on about getting a car seat for their car and asked me to have a look but I have sort of put it off as I didn't want him forward facing.

They have gone and spent 120 pounds on a forward facing seat. I am not overly pleased tbh, they knew my stance on it. She even said she didn't want RF she wanted FF. Surely it's not about what she wants it is what's best for my son's safety?! She says oh I haven't ever had a crash and I don't drive on fast roads, like that makes me feel better. it doesn't have to be her driving badly for a crash to happen someone else could cause it.

I don't feel like I can say anything. probably because I am a bit of a coward and panic at confrontation

He won't be using it all the time just occasionally.

Am I being a bit OTT? DP says it's a good FF seat but that's about it.

Let it go. You have the safest seat for the car he does the majority of travelling in. And it's a very safe seat that she's bought as FF seats go. It's fine to accept a slightly lower safety rating for occasional use.

Try to see the positive side - you have PIL who consider car safety important enough to spend a lot of money on a seat for their own car and ensure that they themselves are familiar with it. Perhaps she doesn't feel she can install the RF one safely, even if shown, doesn't like the fact she can't see him easily (to check he's strapped in, not choking, just talk to him etc) or some other reason which makes her feel uneasy about it but she is too polite to tell you.

I have read threads on here where the grandparents want to rush two year olds onto a booster or don't want to use car seats at all, so I think that you are overthinking, she has to be comfortable with the seat she uses and I think it is the driver's prerogative to decide that. Of course, if you're really uncomfortable with it, then as the parent you could trump that and say she can't go in the car at all, but I feel like this would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. They've clearly gone to a lot of effort to find something which they hope will be an acceptable compromise to you, I think you should appreciate that, and not worry so much about eliminating every possible risk. This is not ever possible.

I have the opposite problem PILs have bought an expensive rotating RF seat for their car. We have a FF. . They have had their seat for several months and DD is yet to use it.

I would not go and bombard her with information, it's too late now. You can't return a car seat and the only thing you'll achieve is making her feel bad.

OP - I would not use the Joie Stages as a RF. In fact - as harsh as this sounds - your DS is likely to be as safe, if not more safe(!) in a FF seat.

OP - which ff seat have they got, then someone could check it out and tell you if it is a "safe" ff seat or not if that helps reassure you/helps you to tell Your MIL you are not happy?

Islanegra there are only about 20 or so children killed in cars in a year - when you take into account how many children ride in cars and how many journeys there are made that's a miniscule proportion and the likelihood of it happening to you is absolutely tiny - OP is being OTT.

birdintherooM I don't tend to rate which? They mark up seats if they come in a variety of colours. They've even have an erf seat that has passed the strictest test in the world a don't buy.

Bird that's a real gamechanger!

Annoyingly it doesn't give the score for RF Stage 1, but the 26% for 0+ RF is pretty damning.

OP it will still be safe in that it has passed all the legal checks so is a "good enough" seat. But for £120ish you can get a Best Buy FF seat that score in the 70%s. I think WHICH isn't always the oracle it seems to think it is, but that report certainly does change the perspective.

I was told by pretty much everyone that a rf seat is always safer than the most expensive ff seats?

I asked places like the in car safety centre, good egg, they all said the above.

Apparently which aren't reliable when it comes to erf seats.

Everywhere I looked said stages was a perfectly good erf seat if your budget isn't hundreds.

OP- the seat is a don't buy with Which? because its side impact protect is so poor, not because it doesn't come in a range of colours.

I didn't say it was a dontbuy based on colours alone I meant that can knock a car seat down.

Whilst the side impact might not be the best it's the frontal impacts I'm more concerned about as these are the most common/dangerou.

I read this on it too, the lady in question seems rather knowledgeable..
Rear Facing Car Seats For Toddlers
IS THE JOIE STAGES A SAFE SEAT?

Which? Magazine gave the Stages a 'Don't Buy' a while ago, and ever since then, this question has come up time and time again. So I thought I would explain it here.

The crash test and ratings that Which? Magazine use are conducted by the German Motoring Organisation the ADAC.
The ADAC's ratings are based 50-50 on safety and user-friendliness. Some forward facing seats, including impact shield seats, are light weight and easy to install. The child appears to be quite comfortable in them and the covers are easy to remove. All these things will bump that half of the rating up. In crash tests the dummy is retained in the seat and the seat doesn't move more than the maximum that the test allows. So they rate it 'safe'. Combine that with the high user-friendliness score and the seat gets a 'Best Buy'.
But the dummies used in those crash tests have no sensors that measure the loads on the neck. And they have no sensors that can detect the effect that the harness or the shield has on the internal organs. When the ADAC test rear facing seats they mark them down on things like installation, the child's view and comfort (all nonsense). Because their test dummies have no way of measuring neck loads and internal injuries, the huge safety benefits of rear facing are completely lost in these tests.
Forward facing seats (including those with shields) are given high ratings for all the wrong reasons. And rear facing seats are marked down for the wrong reasons.
It is true that the Stages got a fairly low side-impact rating. But no worse than any rear facing seat installed with the seat belt in that way would get. I have tried a few different belt installed Group 0+ seats and some are quite wobbly unlike the Stages which is very solid.

The way that seats like the Stages are installed will give them a little more movement than Isofix seats or tethered ones. So most infant seats that are belt installed and seats like the Britax First Class Plus perform in a very similar way.
The Stages got an excellent frontal crash result. Frontal crashes account for 75% of all crashes and side ones are only 20%. Of course side impact should not be ignored but most car seats are designed mainly for frontal impact.
It got a good result forward facing in the crash test. But all that that test does is place a bar 55cm away from the dummy's face and crash the car. If the head doesn't hit that bar the seat passes. But that tells you absolutely nothing about the effect that that crash had on the child's neck. In a crash at 40mph there is an extremely high chance that the child has broken its neck. But the head didn't strike the bar so they give you the impression that this seat is safer forward facing than rear facing!
Also please be aware that European Standard ECE R44/04 does NOT include a side impact test at all. So there are lots of seats available in the shops that haven't been through any independent testing so there is no way of knowing how good or how bad their SIP is.
I think that the Joie Stages has quite unfairly suffered a lot of criticism. There are other seats that don't do well in the Which? tests but no one bats an eyelid. Other seats are recalled for various reasons and it goes unnoticed. I personally think that the Stages is a great seat. The cheapest rear facing seat is still better than the 'best' forward facing one. If you have £350 to spend then by all means get a BeSafe or an Axkid. But if your budget is no higher than £150 then the Stages is by far the best option. It will offer your little one far far more protection than an expensive forward facing seat.

Sorry that's rather long!

By 'everyone' do you mean RF seat retailers? I don't trust Which implicitly but I think it's ridiculous to suggest they are based on choice of colours, and for this specific seat it says the side impact protection is poor.

Anyway I've said my piece and apologies for crossed posts. I thought bird's post might be new info for you. I still think your PIL need to respect your views, but as the GP up post said, you need to have a chat so you both understand where each other other are coming from. It is likely that your PIL care about your DS's safety too.

I don't think goodegg sell car seats I know incar do though they are generally well respected from what I've found.

I didn't say that colours is all which is based on, what I actually said was that it can bump up a car seats score. That's all.

I'm happy with my choice of car seat. Our DS tends to go in the middle anyway to try and protect him a bit more from side impacts.

I don't think it will be worth the battle with them tbh. I'll mention it again but not going to hold my breath.

I'm also not doubting they care about their GC. I know that's a given.

I was just a bit confused as to why they thought it was necessary to buy him a FF seat. I don't doubt they care.

You say in your OP that ...they've been on about getting a car seat for their car and asked me to have a look but I have sort of put it off as I didn't want him forward facing

Well, you probably shouldn't have put off finding them a car seat. If they wanted to pay about £100 or so for a FF seat, I'd have looked at those with them and then said you still wanted DS to be RF and you'd pay the difference. If it still wasn't suitable for them, then I'd buy them a RF car seat and give it to them. It sounds like you'd put it off for so long they've therefore just gone out and bought a FF seat.

YANBU to want DS in a RF seat, but you should have sat down with them and looked at seats when they asked you to. Either you ask them to return it and you pay the difference for a RF seat (or indeed buy them a RFing seat) or you move yours from your car to theirs.

I do think you're being very anxious about it, and I understand the physics behind RF and no doubt they are safer, but you can't dictate how everyone transports your child unless you provide the seat. DD ultimately went in a FF seat with our childminder and on holiday she ended up travelling in the pop up seats in the boot of our hire car. Neither are perfect, but you have to balance against the risk (which is tiny).

My key things with my PIL (who have a FF seat) is that it's fitted properly and that they don't strap DD in with a tonne of layers on. Any poorly fitted seat with poorly fitted straps is a risk, whether FF or RF. This is much more likely to cause injury to DD in any multitude of crashes, not just frontal impacts.

Sorry I know I should butt out.

I'vejust grabbed this from the Which website:
"Our dummies are wired up to record the forces on the head, neck, chest and pelvis, accurately indicating what chances of injury a real child would have in similar circumstances."
Full link here: www.which.co.uk/baby-and-child/baby-transport/guides/how-we-test-child-car-seats/

That directly contradicts your very knowledgeable lady. Do you know she is up to date, has her facts right and is fully independent of trying to sell you a RF seat?

The reason for the useability measure is that carseats are so often installed wrongly. If it's simple, there's less chance of incorrect fitting which will compromise the safety. This is especially relevant when a seat is being moved between cars regularly, especially if GPs etc have to install it too.

I think you're beig OTT. Realistically how often are they in their car?

I considered rear facing for my LO but he's only in the car for 40 minutes every fortnight so I didn't. Although the price made the decision for me tbh.

YANBU if it's important to you.

It was important to me too so we bought one. DM gave me the rolly-eyes, sighs and 'it's a wonder you ever survived, we didn't even have car seats!' shite but he's not her baby, he's mine.

I'd have been very concerned if they'd done what they wanted after I'd explained why I felt it was important. I think possibly sticking your head in the sand wasn't the best thing to do - my MIL also couldn't wait to spend money on her DGS buy one either but bless her, she respected my wishes/concerns/PFBness and got RF.

It would just make me wonder what else they were doing which, while not harmful , isn't helpful either. Like feeding DGC shedloads of chocolate 'because they like it'...

Don't worry about butting out. I posted this thread for people's opinions. I'll definitely check out that link and put it to her. At the moment I'm happy that the stages is safer rear facing than a forward facing. just to recap I did explain I wanted DS in a rf seat. I don't really see the need for them to buy one themselves when there was no issues just using ours.

If they are in RF till 4 where do their legs go? Sorry if that sounds daft but as they get bigger is there room for them, I picture them in the seat with their legs up the back of the car seat. I wouldn't want to travel like that.

I don't believe you

Whilst overall I think Yanbu, I do think you handled it badly.

They wanted to get a car seat for their car. They asked you to have a look. You, in your own words, "put it off". This wasn't a good idea because in the absence of your help, they have taken matters into their own hands and got a FF seat.

Now you have a situation where you have to suck up a risk that you had previously considered unacceptable (FF) or buy them a RF seat to use. Why do they need to transport him anyway in their car?