aibu to have kicked my son out tonight ?

[mrsfuzzy]

ours has been a close family but tonight it was all blown apart because of one of my 17 year old son's behaviour, he certainly isn't ds anymore as a result.
last november, he was found down loading seriously nasty hard core porn, i'm broad minded but this was really bad stuff, he sister discovered it by mistake on his lap top after she asked to borrow it, massive melt down in the household as a result, the 'invasion of his privacy' caused a massive row and his siblings wanted him booted out over night as they were so disgusted by his attitude to it all, his lap top, thankfully, developed a bad virus from something he had watched and crashed the entire system as a result, so it was thrown out. which brings us to this evening, it appears that he has been watching again on his games console which has internet connection, he admits when his laptop when down he logged on to the console, the images and videos are truly vile, violent and not restricted to hard porn, it involves animal torture, cruelty to animals and women, thankfully no children, i was so angry i threw him out, phoned his estranged father who can only have him until tuesday, (back story there] and then i don't know what happens, but to be honest i don't care, there has never been any reason to suspect anything was wrong. he is polite and helpful, loves the family pets, goes to college, has no problems that i'm aware of, but he has turned into someone i don't know anymore.
does anyone have any ideas ? i don't want him here anymore.

KateAdiesEarrings the OP says the following:
the images and videos are truly vile, violent and not restricted to hard porn, it involves animal torture, cruelty to animals and women
on that basis I don't think there's been that much hysteria.

What make you think my post was just about you? She has been called hysterical. Which I honestly don't think she has.

She has discribed what she has seen.
It's the second time.
His ds has now come across it.
His siblings are disgusted in it.
He thinks it's a joke.
He has been asked to leave.

Hopefully he will reflect on what his actions are having on his siblings and mother.

He is not 10 or 15. He is nearly 18 and fully aware of the choices he has made.

Sorry for disturbing image. Anything I could have linked to on google was much worse, or might not have actually been a product of dog fighting, so I screen shoted a picture from my facebook that wasn't as graphic as some and I knew the facts about. (Think you have to be a member of group to view certain pictures or I would have linked). I put it up to show how serious the things op's son have been viewing are/ the reality of it. Sincere apologies. If anyone wants to brave it just google bait dog or similar. It's horrible viewing.

the images and videos are truly vile, violent and not restricted to hard porn, it involves animal torture, cruelty to animals and women

I would confiscate his device and report to the police. They'll want to look at what the box has been downloading.

OP, I would have done the same. If my DS watched filmed abuse I would go stratospheric. You have other children to think of who are rightly disturbed by this. He isn't on the street - he is at his Dad's. I really feel for you. I would be beyond shocked and wouldn't know what to do. For what its worth, I am pretty broadminded about consensual sex. But abusing women or enabling others to keep abusing them? NO. NEVER.

He is only 17. Does he understand why this is not appropriate? I would be talking to him not kicking him out. Any 17 yr old you has had any ounce of decent parenting and role models should know that violent and abusive porn, and animal abuse videos is not right.

OP I don't think you have failed as a parent, why anyone would say that is ridiculous, we try our best but our children are also individuals with their own issues!

I can understand why you kicked him out, but it's probably something that needs tackling with a psychologist. Like you have tried to reiterate, this isn't just "normal" porn. IT's violent and abusive including other abuse/snuff type videos, then it's probably something he needs to see someone about.

While he is in your care and under 18 I would try to help as much as possible...

Your DS needs professional help.
I have read a lot of true crime and the number of rapists and murderers whose background involved animal cruelty and interest in violent porn is alarming. His boundaries of normal behaviour are completely skewed and I would fear for where this would lead him in the future tbh. He may well be "troubled", but whatever the cause if this is not addressed quickly could be horrific.
I do not blame you at all for sending him to his dad's.

For all those saying he needs help - honestly, the quickest way to get him that help is by reporting his activities to the police. He's still a minor, but only just ... once he's 18, this sort of thing will get him adult punishments.

FWIW, a friend of mine has a deeply autistic son who became obsessed with violent porn. She reported him to the cops, which enabled them to access specialised guidance. He's made huge steps since then :)

Police and CEOP - for his own good. Then pick up the pieces afterwards.

mrsfuzzy. With you all the way.

Am really, really shocked at the minimising. Particularly at people like StarLord who call themselves therapists and who are more or less excusing the behaviour and implying that it's really common. Perhaps StarLord needs better supervision as part of his/her therap work because it sounds to me like her/his opinion is skewed by the type of clients she/he sees, and had become desensitised to what is normal.

As for SolidGold, well, it's SolidGold crap again, isnt it? "Snuff movies don't exist." I thought you always like to make out that us pearl-clutches are the naiive ones? What the hell have snuff movies got to do with racism anyway?

All I can say is if that computer still contained those files, and they were discovered/passed on to law enforcement agencies, then someone would be being taken in for further questioning. Who would it be, OP? You? Your DS? I suspect both.

Does your DS realise this? Does he? The most worrying thing about your description of his actions is his lack of embarrassment, his unwillingness to realise how serious this is. He is completely minimising it by laughing it off.

I can understand people of his age accessing those type of things once, for curiosity's sake, but the fact that a) it hasn't shocked him and b) he is actively now seeking out that stuff, despite the first telling-off you gave him, is very worrying.

I also would like to know what is this wierd behaviour around his sisters you talk of ? That's concerning. There are plenty of mnetters on here who have described abuse at the hands of their brother, are people seriously suggesting that that doesn't go on at that age? It starts somewhere, progressively.

I think a few days at his dad's will help him realise you won't tolerate it in your house. (That's if his dad isn't also into such things, and he's getting access to DVDs or websites there.)

Does he go to school? I would actually request to see the head of 6th form and explain what has gone on. i think that all the students in that year could do with some really good PHSCE type of lessons; maybe see if they could look into the possibility of the local police coming in and giving a talk about the harm it does to the victims in the videos and about what, from a legal point of view, potentially could happen to anyone who accesses it.

Yes, he is still your son. Yes, you should help him. But that help should start with him admitting that what he has been accessing is one step too far.

Curly: The mythology round snuff movies usually emphasizes the fac that they were made by vile foreigners: the whole concept is like 'white slavery', a racist moral panic.

And while I believe that the OP saw upsetting material on her son's computer, I do wonder if it could have been (eg) clips from a more extreme horror film, like Hostel or Saw, or some sort of 'OMG yu won't beleeeeeeeeve how horrible this video is', which is a bit more likely.
And if OP has either encouraged or condoned the other DC's calling this teenager a 'perv' and making a scapegoat of him, then it's quite possible he has not been behaving inappropriately to his siblings, but the whole household has been in a quarrelsome, panicky, uniinformed uproar.

For clarification do you know whether the porn is actually "real" - You mentioned rape for example, is it an actual rape or merely some fetishy s&m type stuff carried out by consenting adults? The course of action that I would recommend varies greatly depending on the answer to that.

ANd if what's on the computer is a clip or two from Hostel or some such? You know, something filmed with actors and makeup - because that's far more likely than 'criminal' stuff.

I'm the one who said I'm a counsellor and I sure as hell wasn't minimising it.

Very good post, Curly.

SGB - We have to go by what mrsfuzzy says she saw.

Hi op,

What a horrible choice for you to have to make, pushing aside what you dc has done for a minute

I wanted to post as someone who has kicked a dc out and say whilst kicking dc out was really hard, living with the choice was even harder. The likelihood is once you've kicked them out they are likely they will be angry rather than repentent and you will lose contact.

Not knowing where you dc is or if they are alive Is horrendous, and for me that ate at me, at my relationships and at my health.

Ss were useless and basically bided their time till dc 18th birthday then we're not interested.

Gradually over time what they were kicked out for became less important, and my own fears for them hightened over time.

I don't know if in the same situation I would take the same route who's know whether letting them stay would have helped, when there are other dc's it's makes the choice so much harder.

5 years down the line and contact is sporadic to say the least.

I can't advise you either way, but make the choice that lets you sleep at night.

Coming back to SGB's rather odd posts: one would expect that, if OP had somehow mistaken clips from mainstream movies for illegal porn, the teenager would be doing the "Muuuum, don't you know anything?" eyeroll routine. Not acting out the defensive rage of guilty people everywhere.

Those suggesting mrsfuzzy somehow caused her son's predilection for extreme violence by getting divorced - what??!! It would be really offensive if it weren't so absurd.

Curly: The mythology round snuff movies usually emphasizes the fac that they were made by vile foreigners: the whole concept is like 'white slavery', a racist moral panic --- No never heard that. Why do you keep insinuating people are panicking or being hysterical? It's really weird.

Pissed my sides at golds explanation of what op and her dd saw. Like the op wouldnt have looked more closely and seen it wasn't a fucking film. She just rushed of to MN to start hysterical shrieking !

solid

If you assume the op is correct and telling the truth and the porn is illegal (not just s&m, not consenting adults playing with rape scenarios, but genuine pain, fear, rape, beasality, likely incest and some underage girls) and you also believe the op that her son has 'hacked' into the internet access to purposely download this on multiple occasions then what do you think is normal about this behaviour??

Or what is an hysterical reaction on the ops part??

Op might be a ditzy it illiterate naive idiot but her teenage dd who saw this and looked to see what it was before reporting to the mum is prob not. It is also usually very obvious when you see something even if only for a second whether you are looking at a film or a website.

also the ops son has admitted it is porn and not contested the material. What he is saying is he doesn't see that the material is wrong. Thinks it is fine to watch this type of porn / abuse. THAT is the biggest problem here.

Assuming that the ops son has been accessing illegal, worrying abuse images, has admitted it, isn't ashamed of his actions, won't seek help and is knowingly going to continue putting the dd's in a very dubious safeguarding position (again, prob best to trust that the op knows more about her family set up than you) and continue committing this crime under the ops roof what would you do if this was your family ?

tim the op son is with his dad. He is not living in a cardboard box

Op will probably sleep better knowing the rest if the family is not going to be subjected to vile media.

I'm amazed at all the posters saying that OP should not disown him, because he's her (nearly adult) child.

Normally on Mumsnet people are advised to shop their sons/daughters to the police if they are violent/ stealing/ addicted to drugs.

OP, do you think that there is any possibility that he has been sexually abused? Although, even if he has, there's no justification.

All those saying get him help, OPs son would have to cooperate, which he won't. Even if he does, I don't think it's something most counsellors would have much experience of. And you are quite limited with what you get on the NHS anyway.

IIRC, there's a charity that campaigns against porn and educates about the damage it causes- I think the Lilith trust. Maybe ask them for their advice?

Good luck and hugs, it must be a really hard situation to be in.

joy

My dc initially went to family on a temporary measure (like ops) but I refused to have them back as the the relief on the rest of the family was huge while they were away.

Dc felt marginalised, and I didn't see them for a long time.