aibu to have kicked my son out tonight ?

[mrsfuzzy]

ours has been a close family but tonight it was all blown apart because of one of my 17 year old son's behaviour, he certainly isn't ds anymore as a result.
last november, he was found down loading seriously nasty hard core porn, i'm broad minded but this was really bad stuff, he sister discovered it by mistake on his lap top after she asked to borrow it, massive melt down in the household as a result, the 'invasion of his privacy' caused a massive row and his siblings wanted him booted out over night as they were so disgusted by his attitude to it all, his lap top, thankfully, developed a bad virus from something he had watched and crashed the entire system as a result, so it was thrown out. which brings us to this evening, it appears that he has been watching again on his games console which has internet connection, he admits when his laptop when down he logged on to the console, the images and videos are truly vile, violent and not restricted to hard porn, it involves animal torture, cruelty to animals and women, thankfully no children, i was so angry i threw him out, phoned his estranged father who can only have him until tuesday, (back story there] and then i don't know what happens, but to be honest i don't care, there has never been any reason to suspect anything was wrong. he is polite and helpful, loves the family pets, goes to college, has no problems that i'm aware of, but he has turned into someone i don't know anymore.
does anyone have any ideas ? i don't want him here anymore.

I have three children, I work with children and teenagers with BESD.

Really! And your this judgmental?!

And do you blame their parents if they behave in a manner that unacceptable? Do you take responsibility if your children misbehave? Do you ever tell them off? Are are they perfect little imaginary Angels.

I don't believe that some one with such a closed view on life should work with such children.

Elisheva, nurture isn't everything. You are talking very idealistically there.

Children are all different and respond differently too. Home life is the greatest influence, but there are outside influences too which you cannot totally control. School etc., especially at secondary age. Your influence reduces somewhat as others gradually increase.

Nature is also a factor. A person is who they are. You can imbue your values all you like, but there comes a point when they will start branching out and you jus have to hope it was enough.

My husband is a good, kind and generous man. Similar can be said of his sister. However, different story for their abusive and alcoholic younger brother who was brought up just the same as they were. Stable and caring family background. Definitely NOT abusive and alcoholic parents.

I don't think it is all always down to nurture. That is far too simplistic and naïve.

If you're defining nurture as outside influence then that encompasses school/friends/ media etc.
Nowhere in the op does she takes even a small amount of responsibility, it's all her son's fault, she doesn't say she loves him, wants to help him, believes he can change. Nothing in the post comes across as someone genuinely asking for help, more someone seeking absolution for her actions. Children behave badly, I was a shockingly behaved child but what got me through was the unconditional love of my parents, even after being arrested, even after being sectioned, they never gave up on me.

What I find extra-ordinary is people think that just because they had DC at 17 and lived alone or that their parents separation didn't impact on their mental well being that this is in anyway relevant to how mature or secure this OPs son should feel. You have not lived his life.

Before you apply your personal circumstances to this child's life and encourage his very stressed mother to make emotionally based decisions that will have lasting impact on their real lives - stop and think about your motivations and stick to the facts.

He is still a child for one - (it's the very rarest of 17 year old that feels ready to make the life choice to have children and live alone). And who knows what kind of a separation his parents had and what the relationship with his stepfather is and has been. It is as likely that he is emotionally scarred, as it is that he is unaffected and/or somewhere in between. But we do know his siblings have been calling him a perv for at least six months - which isn't consistent with a nurturing family environment so without making too many assumptions we can see there are some emotionally stress points in the home situation.

The OP talks about hard core porn with cruelty to animals and women. I'm not sure what that would involve but I know that's not a snuff movie. And I've seen TV programmes on terrestrial TV that have depicted cruelty to animals, women and rape (some Scandi noir is very disturbing to me but contains these scenes and I have to leave the room) so without actually viewing the material we don't know exactly what he has been watching. So let's not condemn the boy to a life on the margins with no family support to appease our own issues.
His mother is stressed. She's acting in the childish and emotional space and needs to move to rational and adult thinking. She needs to parent her child and he needs parenting and nurturing. The rest is hysteria as a previous poster has said.

Op, you've been given a hard time on this thread but I think YANBU.

Your son chose to view those images even after being told before how disturbing you found his actions. Many teenagers make mistakes but it seems he hadn't learned from the first time you discovered his viewing habits. I agree that you need to tell him to get help or move out because you cannot be expected to share your home with someone who is looking at such vileness. This is very different to watching 'normal' porn and you have not overreacted despite what some pp seem to think.

Of course you love your son but I would think you don't like him very much at the moment and hopefully he will want to get help rather than lose his home and family support You definitely shouldn't allow him to move back in unless he accepts the seriousness of what he has done.

This is not a fucking parental fail.

It is not HER fault her son is watching depraved shit. It is not her fault he got around the blocks. I won't take responsibility if god forbid one of mine watch that type of porn because at nearly 18 they are old enough to take responsibility for themselves. Nature, friendships, media has a hell of a lot of influence on how a child turns out, more so than nurture I believe. Anyone with a few older children will know that no matter if they were raised the same they all turn out differently. How dare anyone blame the OP for her son's taste in porn.

OP I don't know what I would do, I really don't. I would be devastated and if he didn't agree to get help i'm not sure at nearly 18 if I could have him back. He comes back on the condition that he gets help and stops accessing the porn.. I think that is how I would handle it.

I would not continue to live with my husband if he was watching illegal depraved porn and I'm not sure I could live with an almost 18 year old if he did the same, son or not. You can't force him to get help so all you can really do is encourage it and work out if you can continue to live with him if he doesn't when you have other children in the house.

"She's acting in the childish and emotional space and needs to move to rational and adult thinking."

One of the most patronising things I've read on here in a while.

Elisheva, I should clarify spell it out that home life = nurture. External influences are in addition. Nature is different again but you have ignored that part of my post.

All factors are influential. Neither 100% nurture nor 100% nature. One of your post did suggest you think it is all down to nurture. Simplistic at best.

Op, what your ds did is illegal and, even more importantly, damaging his siblings. You did the right thing in first protecting the innocent and when the dust has settled you can worry about how to help the perpetrator. Owning such porn is a sex crime and ds does need help or will have to face the courts when over 18. Op will have to make sure no such material is left on her computers.

Really sad the point of MN is to provide support and the best most this thread can do is condemn. :(

I'm really shocked by some posters suggesting that this type of extreme porn (and I object to calling it porn, it should be called filmed abuse) is 'normal'. I'm scared for my younger sisters, should I be telling them to expect DPs to watch bestiality and rape videos online? Should they join in too?

If a mner posted in relationships in 2 years time saying their 19yr old DP watches videos like the OPs son would all of you saying he just needs love and encouragement give the same advice?

mum op is protecting her other children and rightly so. She gave him a chance last time at the detriment of the rest of the house hold. He is not sorry. He is laughing it off. The breathing space he has now will hopefully give him chance to reflect what his behavour is having on the rest of the house hold.

This is not just porn this is hard core damaging stuff. Probally illegal. Op has done the right thing.

monmunn I don't think those posters realise what is actually in the content, they can't do. This is not somthing that you can discuss over a sweet cup of tea and talk about Internet usage. This lad need help. The children in the house need protecting and I feel sorry for the poor girl that ends up with him!

No it is not normal to watch rape porn and how dare posters blame op. Would it be her fault if in the future he hurts a woman? She's not letting it go, she has told her son. She even concerned about his behaviour around his sister's...he sounds very damaged and yes she needs protect her other younger children first.

A lot of people react with absolute screaming hysterics at the mere mention of porn, and it sounds like OP is one of them. It's not impossible that what the boy was watching was horror films or shock sites - as someone up thread mentioned, quite a few people, particularly young men, have looked at stuff like this from time to time without turning into harmful predators. Given the OP's mix of naivety and overreaction, it's hard to be sure what was going on here apart from what sounds like a poorly-informed family with a tendency to squabble and scapegoat.
(Please bear in mind, by the way, that 'snuff films' do not exist. The concept is a mixture of racist myth and pro-censorship moral panic.)
OP, hope you have calmed down and that your son's father is relatively cool-headed. Unless your other children have actually said that their older brother has mistreated them or frightened them, try not to let your imagination run away with you.

If a mner posted in relationships in 2 years time saying their 19yr old DP watches videos like the OPs son would all of you saying he just needs love and encouragement give the same advice?

No I'd say send him home to his mum and find a chap mature enough to have an adult rekatioship that involves moving in together.

This child hasn't (as far as the OP has said) hurt anyone but himself. We must not let our personal feelings about the content he has viewed get in the way of the facts.

Put a strict filter on your internet, change password then he can't look for it as it will be blocked.

OP you've had a really hard time here and I think that was very unfair. This is an awful situation.

Even if you manage to block everything it's not addressing the problem itself, which is his taste for nasty sick porn.

I think I might threaten him with the police unless he agreed to seek medical help. This can't be allowed to go on and maybe fear of consequence will force him to get help.

I do think you have to stop the siblings from calling him a perv - it will make him defensive and might make hin dig his heels in about getting help. While he's at his dad's can you go round there and talk about why he's looming at this stuff.

Is it possible to retrain someones sexual tastes to something 'normal'? Can you speak to a psychiatrist and ask exactly how they would treat someone like your son?

I think you can't have him back at home if you think he's a potential danger to your other kids and if that is the case you have no option but to insist on treatment or the police have to step in.

solid screaming hysterics ? - hardly poorly informed family? Wtf? In what world do you think that's suitable viewing for anyone?

I've seen a film where someone was murdered. Well, I caught the back end of it so yes they do exist. In fact they are all over the internet.

No it's not ok to watch violent sex scenes or animal cruelty and yes if you'd bothered to read the original post you will see his siblings were disgusted by it - the first time.

What a absolute dickish and patronising post.

If the op was an 18 year old girl with small children and her 18 year old DP was caught TWICE watching this shit, rapes,animal cruelty,snuff films, by passing internet controls and laughing about it when challenged.

The replies would be extremly different.

But the OP isn't asking about a partner where they are both legally adults so what is the point of that comparison?

The OP is parent to a DC. She does not have an equal relationship with him. She is his DM and that's why she's getting responses that you would give a parent.

Also, if the OP had been 18 and came on MN the first time this happened, I don't think anyone would have suggested not really talking about it and waiting for her DP's computer to get a virus as a solution to the problem. The OP didn't manage it well from the outset which was six months ago.

As for all this hysteria about what he has or hasn't watched. The OP doesn't know if it was legal or illegal. There's a lot of shock/horror but very few facts. imo that would have been my priority - having some honest, frank conversations about what was going on. Not isolating my DC, labelling him a pervert and allowing his siblings to do so too.

This is from the first post: "the images and videos are truly vile, violent and not restricted to hard porn, it involves animal torture, cruelty to animals and women"

I'm not sure why people are responding as if this was just vanilla porn he's watching.

Such a MN classic 'hysteria' hysterical'. Maybe op should go for a spa break to 'calm down'

Op has seen what's on it so has a better judgement than the people trying to minimalise it. Also his sister seen it - that must have been nice for her. His family are being effected by it and op is being accused of being hysterical

its really trendy to be so casual about things like this. Forget that op has concerns about her younger dds. She is just being a typical woman - hysterical .

joyful I find your comment about the OP being a hysterical woman very offensive. You've created a straw man to knock down and this isn't about you.

I didn't say the OP had been hysterical. I said there was hysteria on this thread about what he had or had not watched. fgs there were even comparisons to snuff movies at one point

It sounds as though there is a troubled teen in the middle of this and all the knee-jerk banishment responses are not going to help him or his siblings in the long-run. imo the casual responses are the ones which support the OP in throwing him out because they show a distinct lack of foresight about the impact such isolation could have on a vulnerable and troubled teen.

The OP has been given some good advice on this thread. I hope both her and her DS can find a way forward from here.