aibu to have kicked my son out tonight ?

[mrsfuzzy]

ours has been a close family but tonight it was all blown apart because of one of my 17 year old son's behaviour, he certainly isn't ds anymore as a result.
last november, he was found down loading seriously nasty hard core porn, i'm broad minded but this was really bad stuff, he sister discovered it by mistake on his lap top after she asked to borrow it, massive melt down in the household as a result, the 'invasion of his privacy' caused a massive row and his siblings wanted him booted out over night as they were so disgusted by his attitude to it all, his lap top, thankfully, developed a bad virus from something he had watched and crashed the entire system as a result, so it was thrown out. which brings us to this evening, it appears that he has been watching again on his games console which has internet connection, he admits when his laptop when down he logged on to the console, the images and videos are truly vile, violent and not restricted to hard porn, it involves animal torture, cruelty to animals and women, thankfully no children, i was so angry i threw him out, phoned his estranged father who can only have him until tuesday, (back story there] and then i don't know what happens, but to be honest i don't care, there has never been any reason to suspect anything was wrong. he is polite and helpful, loves the family pets, goes to college, has no problems that i'm aware of, but he has turned into someone i don't know anymore.
does anyone have any ideas ? i don't want him here anymore.

He needs help, but you have to protect your other children. If he continues to live with you, you need school, a counsellor on board for therapy, plus limited or no net access.

It's more than experimentation, he is sexually aroused by torture. And he thinks it's ok...it's a short step to actually doing it himself.

How is the rest of his life? Does he have friends and asocial life? A job? Studying? Sport? As well as therapy I'd be focussing on him building interests and friendships away from a screen. I don't know if this has started from being alone, anxious and has progressed from there.

If he goes to college I imagine there will be a designated safeguarding lead on the staff. Could you talk to them about what's happening and seek their advice? I appreciate that they've possibly just broken up for the holiday now.

You say he was polite and helpful until recently which leads me to wonder if something terrible has happened to him. If he was abused or raped it will be very difficult for him to tell you about it and watching it happen to others may, in a really odd way, be his way of coping.

Prima - one thing it achieves is safety for her daughters. The kind of porn he's watching, incest is a possibility. And the kids are voicing their "concerns" clearly.

I'm not suggesting op has him become homeless, but finding another place to live might be necessary.

I actually hate animals being hurt so i wouldnt be 'oh he's experimenting, bless' as so lovely put but
I fail to see though what you'll achieve by kicking him out.
You'll only alienate him futher.he needs help.

To those saying he needs help how do you force an almost 18 year old to "get help" ?

OP has already said she's spoken to him and so has her DH and he's totally uninterested in help or from the sounds of it acknowledging he's even doing anything wrong.

YANBU I would not tolerate it either he has a choice come home and do whatever is necessary to stop and of his own volition or go to his Fathers to live.

I do think YABU since you ask but I also feel very sorry for you all. Reading between the lines life has been difficult for you all for a while. The path from emotionally stable family with great communications, to finding extreme porn on child's pc to whole family rejecting child, calling him a perv and chucking him out onto the street, seems to have been swift to me as a reader, but you will know the context behind this.
Now what to do. You as the adult (the real grown up with wisdom of hindsight and experience of life) needs to stand back and think unemotionally. He does not have that capacity yet. 17 is not an adult in law or in biology. He is hormone fuelled and confused.

Your son may not have had an easy/straight forward childhood (you will know or have an idea of how your life circumstances have impacted him as an individual) and he may be immature emotionally- he sounds it from your desription. Seeking sexual gratification in this way is not a normal or acceptable reaction to the events in his life but it is a reaction and he needs help.
His mother and nurturer has now rejected him. His emotional state now is even more vulnerable. You the mum, need to be responsible and not abandon him.
And you need to think about the impact this has had on other DC. Yes they are upset by the images and that needs your calm and grown up discussion to help them with these feelings. But they also need your grown up and unemotional support with whatever they are dealing with in the home that makes them feel it's ok to call their brother a perv - if it's abuse that needs one course of action, if it's not abuse you need help them understand that you won't reject them if they also make a mistake as they grow up.

If as you are hinting in your post you suspect your son has abused your DD then you really urgently need to do something about that. Chucking him out is not the answer though. You need to tell the authorities and get urgent help for your son. But if you don't think really think this is a possibility and your DD are calling him perv to tease him as part of sibling rivalry/seeking parental approval, you need to put a stop to it immediately and explain to your DC why it is wrong to allow someone to carry that label if it's not true and do you all you can to protect your son.
Be very, very sure that he has done something inappropriate or illegal ( beside viewing online) before you let this become neighbourhood/playground gossip. Your lad is just 17 - it's a hell of a piece of baggage to carry for the rest of his life for a childhood mistake that could be rectified in a loving, nurturing and supportive family environment.
Project ahead six months, one year, five - when he has grown up a bit and this is one of those embarrassing childhood incidents we look back on. How will you feel about the part you played? How will he feel about himself, you, his siblings? And what will your other DC think of how you are handling this when they have the benefit of more years and wisdom?

And if his relationship with his father is good - you need to speak very calmly and frankly with your ex to encourage him to take the lead on supporting his child through this really testing time, especially if you feel you can't do it.
This is what parenting is really about you know. The real tests for us all come in the worst of times when it feels as if all the wheels are falling off the wagon. However you proceed now, this is the most important piece of parenting you will ever do for this DS.
I wish you good luck and good decisions.

mumBehavingbadly That is a great post and captures my thoughts entirely on reading this threat.

Please think your actions through OP. I hope your family reach a good resolution on this all.

Your ex needs to take a bigger responsibility in this. Could he try and intervene? Perhaps a chat from the Police would help your son get a reality check. Seeing it from an outsiders and legal perspective may help him see how wrong his actions are.

This will undoubtedly lead to behaviour and relationship issues in the future. I know you are all disgusted with him at the moment, but he does need an intervention, humiliation is not working. Sorry you are going through this OP.

The multiple references to getting "help" make out that he is doing something wrong. While porn may not be everyones cup of tea, there is certainly nothing wrong with it (the legal kinda of porn that is, and it appears he has restricted himself to this). Definitely think YABU.

I feel no sympathy for anyone who watches such depravity.

I agree. I would call the police then go NC. Focus on the rest of your family.

YANBU I wouldn't want anyone, adult son or not, to be in the same house as my daughters if they were watching porn of women being raped. Especially when they were already on their 2nd chance and thinks it's funny.
IMO At minimum he needs to live somewhere else and seek counselling before he can move back into the family home.

Oh OP, what a terrible situation to have found yourself in. I really feel for you. I'm frankly amazed at some of the responses you've gotten; watching snuff films and gang rape and torture videos is NOT 'experimenting'.

In all honesty I think the police should be involved, if he is watching content that is illegal. If he is breaking the law, then he needs to face up to the consequences, for real. The impression you give of his attitude ("go fuck that" etc) means that he is not taking what he has done seriously, and he needs to be shown exactly how serious it is. And it should also force him to get help in dealing with whatever the underlying cause of his behaviour is. If he isn't going to get help himself, then he needs to be forced into it.

I understand all of that is much easier said than done, but it needs to happen. Good luck.

Pornography comes in different legal categories and I'm sorry to say it, but what you are describing is illegal. He may very well get a visit from the police for possessing and downloading indecent materials. These things are monitored. I think some posters are downplaying the severity of this. he needs help to address why he is sexually aroused by such disturbing images.

This must be so hard for you op and I can completely understand why you have reacted the way you have.

Completely agree with the poster above too!

Burke - I don't think torturing animals is legal? Definitely something wrong with watching that IMO!

While porn may not be everyones cup of tea, there is certainly nothing wrong with it (the legal kinda of porn that is, and it appears he has restricted himself to this)

Really??? Have you actually bothered to read the OP?

I feel sorry for you op, your son is virtually an adult and I can well understand why you don't want him in your home at the moment, I would find that content distressing and disturbing.

I think I would only have him back on condition he was fully accepting of therapy/treatment and did not have any form of internet access in his own room.

Putting controls on the computers work for as long as your kids are less techno savvy than you, so whilst I would definitely have them I wouldn't soley rely on them

morning everyone, thanks for up dates, i think some posters need to re read some of my input so they get the facts straight before commenting but mostly you are helpful and helping me think a s bit straighter.
there has been no reason for this to happen, no abuse etc, so as i said before the son i told to leave last night is not the son i know, he is like a complete stranger to me, that is what is so upsetting and bewildering. we were 'late' in getting online, only about 6 months ago, and this is when it started, it was nipped in the bud and we thought it was a one off with hard core porn, not very good but hey, not exactly ground breaking, and then this latest development...
i think parameters need to be in place and def. help but if he won't accept help then, he has to go, it's such a sad situation.
i think that this should be a warning to all the posters on here though, you can't be too complacent about the internet and multi media these days, if nothing else today, check your parental controls on everything, you never know what your dc, teens, spouses might be watching, every site visitor has a family somewhere, don't be certain you know everything because you don't, 'it'll never happen to our family' mentality does not protect you, i was naive to think that, with all the controls available there will always be a way round them for someone who is determined, and let's face it, most young people are likely to to be fair more tech savvy than their parents ever will be.

Sorry but are we talking about actual snuff or rape videos or 'just' depictions by actors? That makes a huge difference obviously. Assuming its the former, I agree with pp that anger will not help. but his sisters also need to feel safe. Is staying with his dad really not a possibility? I think you should talk to your daughters and try to find out their concerns. Are they scared of him and why? If they and you have no reason to feel he's a danger to family members I would let him back home on condition he sees a therapist. You must find one with experience in this area who is 'sex positive'. As others say treat this as an addiction - with all the sympathy but sadly also suspicion appropriate to addicts. I think you need to show him you love him and remind yourself he is still your son. He needs stability and support to get through this.

mrsfuzzy I'm not sure I understand your post or where you are coming from on this at all. You do need to get past his childish outburst, take a step back and think about how you are going to parent your child through this time in his life. He is making the transition from child to adult but that doesn't happen overnight or even at the same age or life stage for each person. Every child is different .

17 is a child legally and regardless of that whether he turns 18 in two hours, two weeks or two months is entirely irrelevant. The response he gave you demonstrates he is totally immature and needs parental guidance and support.

When he was a toddler and he was running into the road screaming in a tantrum despite your best efforts to teach him road safety surely you didn't just roll your eyes and let him run into the traffic?

If you are struggling to parent your teenager get yourself help. Get yourself the help to help your child. He's watched some extreme porn - it's not the end of the world and should not be the end of your relationship with him.

How do you account for the change in personality? The access to the internet alone can't explain it. No decent, kind, sensitive and caring person comes across rape and animal torture videos and suddenly says that's OK now. People who understand why rape and animal torture are wrong don't change their minds when they first see it, if anything they appreciate even more why it is horrific and switch off the video.

If your DS has changed beyond recognition something happened to make him change and I don't think you'll be able to help him unless you figure out what it was. Parental controls on the Internet don't prevent rapists and abusers from raping and abusing, access to the Internet is the least of your problems.

Everything Mumbehavingbadly said.

You gave him back access to the Internet with no restrictions and didn't deal with the situation properly the first time and now it's all his fault?

As for the sisters not feeling safe after finding out he watches porn, do they realise it's watched by thousands if not millions and likely their husbands will watch it.

Reading between the lines your son has a different father, I suspect the actions would be very different if this was one of your DHs own children.

Good parenting means guiding and seeking outside help if needed, not throwing them out and closing your eyes to it all. He is supposed to have your unconditional love.