Israeli in-laws staying after pfb birth

[Roooary]

Pfb is due in June. DH is Israeli but has lived in the UK for 10 years. I am English and not Jewish. My ILs live in Israel and this will be their first GC. Yesterday I found out that ILs have booked flights for 2 weeks before due date. They have not consulted me or DH or booked a hotel or return flights home. DH spoke to them and they were expecting to stay with us and have offered to compromise by staying in a hotel until I return from hospital. I do not want them to stay here, visit before the birth or immediately after the birth.

If pfb is a boy ILs will be pressuring us into having a circumcision on the 8th day (Jewish tradition). DH is atheist and does not see the point in circumcising but agrees with MIL that had he lived in Israel he would probably have allowed it. I am strongly against circumcision. I do not want the first 8 days of potential DS's life to be a battle. If it is a girl ILs will be welcome earlier but I still don’t want them here until I feel physically recovered and able to look after the baby. MIL takes over everything and she already objects to so many things we are planning to do. I don't want her here taking over and showing me how to do everything before I've even had a chance to try.

I don’t want ILs staying here because they have had no respect for my personal space and I need a break from MIL. She stands very close to me, talks very loudly and touches my arms and face a lot which I hate. Last time she was here she “helped” us by moving the contents of all of our kitchen cupboards around while we were at work. She feels entitled to give advice about literally anything, from my PhD to my clothing to the way we spend our free time. DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this.

In the interests of fairness I should mention that:

• In Israel a new baby is basically public property. ILs genuinely think it is normal to expect to have unlimited access to GC while they are here.
• ILs had much less involvement in our wedding than my parents and think they should be “paid back” now. They had almost no input because they were angry with DH for marrying a non-Jew so they refused to speak to him for ages. They changed their minds about 3 weeks before the wedding and expected us to change plans for them which we mostly couldn't do.
• Last time I spoke to FIL it was before the recent elections in Israel and we had a disagreement about politics. He has mainstream opinions which I find offensive (supports settlements and thinks that Palestine was never a county, does not have a culture and that Palestinians should just move to other Arab countries and stop hassling Israel). He is worried that I will try to “punish” him and MIL for their political views using access to their GC.
• DH is torn because he thinks that what ILs are doing is normal in their culture but not in mine. He views it as a cultural clash rather than ILs not respecting our choices.

AIBU to insist that ILs do not come here until they are invited, book return flights, stay in a hotel, and only visit for a couple of hours at a time? The way they are acting you would think I have said they will never meet the baby.

YANBU. Stay strong, put your foot down and make sure DH is onside. You do not want the first few weeks of family time with your newborn ruined by this. They cannot stay. Tell them to stay in a hotel and visit for a short while at a time. End of.

Yanbu set the boundaries for visitation etc you need to prioritise yourself, DH and your newborn during this time so you can enjoy it and rest not be stressing about ILs!

You need to be very firm with the boundaries right from the beginning and make sure you DH backs you up, whenever something happens not after.

I would probably have your DH speak to them before they arrive and lay down the law on circumcision, if they bother you about it they will not be welcome in your home. No discussion.

In regards to baby being public property my family are like this too I'm dreading it. But as I plan to BF they simply won't be able to pass my newborn around and around for hours on end.

I would tell them they aren't welcome for at least a few weeks post partum. We have agreed it family visiting at the hospital and the first day home then we are to be left alone for 2 weeks.

You are going to be glad of help once your baby is born. However, you are also going to be incredibly emotional and tired and fragile. No place for a fight.

Basically, this is one for your DH to resolve not you. You have decided against circumcision (good on you - what kind of weird deity wants to snip bits off a baby?!). That's the end of it. Your DH will need to communicate the Decision is Final mood to his parents so it absolutely does not come up as a topic while they are staying.

As for where they should stay/how much time etc. it seems odd they should book flights - what if the baby is late? Quite likely

YANBU. Tell them to f**k really. It's your home, your baby. Stay strong. I can't think of anything worse.

YANBU, DH needs to tell them straight that they are staying at a hotel for the duration. I would be asking them to change their flights too and to book a return flight while they are at it!

addtobasket the reason it doesn't matter if baba is late is that they plan to be here for very long. I'm ethnic Chinese and it is normal for parents to stay for 6 months after the birth of a child.

I strongly agree with the others. The GPs should have access to their GC, but only only on terms that you permit. You must be very firm about this, and make sure that DH fully supports you as is his duty.

They should not stay with you either before the birth or after. Your couple of hours at a time seems very reasonable. And they certainly have no right to insist on the baby's penis being cut about. Genital mutilation - male or female - is abhorrent.

No no no no no, you have to put your foot down on this one, especially the circumcision. It is your baby, not their's, both of you are its parents and decide, not them. My IL stayed with us a month before dd was born, and a month afterwards, it was awful, they were interferring, bossy and I did not want them spoiling what was meant to be a relaxing time before, and enjoying my newborn baby. Like your in laws, they booked their flights without consulting us and expected us to be fine with it.

Lol basket, they have prepared for that eventuality as they haven't booked flights home...

Tough one. But understandable from their point of view - they sound very excited and have planned nothing out of the ordinary from their pov - if yiu were living down the road from them then their reactions would be the same, (except they would be like this full time, instead of just when they visit lol).

Honestly, I would probably go along with it - we live overseas and do grandparents have always planned extended trips around births (in fact, once pfb is out of the way, it's really helpful to have someone to look after toddlers etc etc) but I would make sure the discussion around the circumcision is had in advance with dh, and that this is communicated in advance to his parents.

And relax - honestly, it will be fine. They clearly love you all to pieces and are excited. You married into a culture (whether your dh has chosen to step outside of it, his family hasn't) and so the cultural norms come with his family, I'm afraid. Think of their bonkers as an expression of love for you once the circumcision bit is out of the way.

You are not being unreasonable. And put your foot down about the circumcision or you may find yourself railroaded into it ( or worse, it happening behind your back.)

Tell them you'd love to see them but only after x weeks. Be very firm about it. Don't accept any 'oh we can't change the flights' crap either.

It's your home, your baby etc. You'll be exhausted as it is, you don't need any extra stress. Dh needs to help you out on this one so you present a united front.

Good luck.

Don't get your baby circumcised just to keep the peace, please!
Sorry you've been put in this position, sounds like the kind of stress you don't need during a pregnancy.

YANBU at all.

Have you got somebody you could bribe to lodge them for you and keep them out of your hair? That might sound better to them than a hotel.

Make sure that there is no way they could get a hold of a spare key for your place.

Why wont your dp just tell them to stay in a hotel?

This is a big culture clash, but if you are to be sensitive to theirs and understanding, then they need to give you the same respect, and what they are suggesting would to me seem rude and intrusive, which even if it isnt meant like that, after childbirth is NOT the time for this to happen.

AddtoBasket - I don't agree that having the ILs in the house will make things easier by being helpful. Guests in the house are a strain quite often and these ones certainly sound like hard work.

I'd tell DH you'll be happy for them to visit for a set amount of hours a day (you'll decide when the time comes and see how you feel) but that they need to be in a hotel.

And if they even put the slightest amount of pressure on you to circumcise your DS, they won't be allowed over the threshold. If someone put emotional pressure to snip bits off my child I would freak out at them, especially if you don't share their beliefs.

And be firm on all of your wishes Rooary immediately- your future, exhausted self will thank you.

" DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this."
Then IMO you need to make it absolutely clear to him that NOTHING has changed. Except possibly that once you are a mother you are going to put up with even less shit than before.

He needs to make it clear to his parent where the boundaries are, and that there will be consequences if they overstep them.

• No circumcision.
• No telling you what to do.
• No comments if what you are doing is not what she would do.

Oh, and she keeps away from the kitchen cupboards (seriously, I would go nuclear if anyone did that to me - that's my territory, you bastard ).

She sounds rather overbearing, you need to be sure your DH will back you up against her rather than revert to being her son first and foremost. Is there anyone else who can be around for backup too? Preferably someone equally strong-willed who will cheerfully tell her to back off?

You and your dp need to discuss and draw up an agreement of events and support which works for both of you.

It does sound like there is a big clash of cultures, between his IL and you, with your dh somewhere in the middle.

Once you and your dh have reached an agreement, it is then up to him to communicate that to his parents and stand absolutely firm, without wavering.

Please be aware though, that in order to reach agreement, there will need to be compromise from all parties. In my experience, agreement is usually reached most satisfactorily when everyone feels they have achieved a little of what they want, but are all also a little disappointed about something they have not achieved. That way, no-one has completely won and no-one has completely lost.

It's so annoying, this general 'oh you'll be glad of the help'. No, everyone is different and some people just want their own space after birth. Tiptoeing around guests, worrying about them, entertaining them is not helpful or relaxing. Put your foot down OP.

You married into a culture (whether your dh has chosen to step outside of it, his family hasn't) and so the cultural norms come with his family, I'm afraid.

No she didn't. She married a man. That doesn't commit her to accept the 'cultural norms' of his parents. She is perfectly entitled and capable of setting her own cultural norms for her own family.

Your baby is not public property that they are allowed free access to. Do not allow your baby son (if it turns out to be a boy) to be circumcised just because that's what would've happened if your DH had married someone else, or whatever.

Hear hear Sallyingforth.

My family culture involves eating jelly with coleslaw in it and going out and shooting gophers for fun and church twice on Sundays but I wouldn't inflict any of that on my DP and force him to do things just because my parents did.

Apart from the jelly with coleslaw. Tis surprisingly yummy.

Yanbu, they have no right to demand that you basically mutilate your child for one. They have no right to bother you in the days leading up to the birth, you need this time to relax and prepare. Visiting after the child is born, ok. But they are not in their culture when they visit, interfering is not a option unless they want to alienate themselves. It's your husband's place to make sure his parents understand this, and understand that any stress they cause will lead to them being asked to leave, no questions asked. Tell your husband to get off the fence, support you and basically find his spine.

I think you need to compromise. I understand your reluctance to have them stay before or directly after the birth, but you need to remember this is normal in Israeli culture and they assumed they would be welcome. There are massive cultural differences here, both in their attitudes, perception of personal space, being 'helpful' in house, physical contact etc. I'm sure they had no desire to upset you, they just behave as they would with people of their own culture.

Their grandchild is probably the most exciting thing that's happened to them for decades, please try to understand that.

I sense they just want to feel part of the family and get to know you. Try to be kind. Everything you described reminded me of my Jewish Israeli grandma and how she clashed with my mum over exactly the same issues. They found her overbearing and intrusive and ended up falling out with her (and eventually practically banned her from visiting at all). Yet to me and my siblings she was a loving, doting grandma who could have enriched our lives so much if my mum had let her. I still resent my parents for shutting her out of our lives, and think how my life could have been different had she been tolerated instead of shunned. She was a warm, caring lady with so much energy. I also feel I missed out on my cultural heritage as a result of my parents shutting her out.

I also think you should avoid talking politics, it's natural they have different views. It's rude to challenge guests political beliefs when they are guests in your home and strangers in this country. Their political stance is none of your business and challenging it is awkward as well as bad form.

Don't underestimate the cultural differences between Jewish families and non-Jewish. Try to learn a bit about their culture or learn some Hebbrew to show you respect them.

Just be open with your MIL and PIL about not coming so soon after the birth. Tell them it's a cultural difference and we do it differently in UK. If they are determined to come anyway, insist they get a hotel or rent a flat for a few weeks, they don't have to stay with you at all. You're entitled to do that. But please try not to make them feel unwelcome in your lives. They're your child's grandparents and deserve to be part of the family, however annoying you find them. I expect they are secretly terrified you will shut them out of their son's life and prevent them having a relationship with their grandchild.