Israeli in-laws staying after pfb birth

[Roooary]

Pfb is due in June. DH is Israeli but has lived in the UK for 10 years. I am English and not Jewish. My ILs live in Israel and this will be their first GC. Yesterday I found out that ILs have booked flights for 2 weeks before due date. They have not consulted me or DH or booked a hotel or return flights home. DH spoke to them and they were expecting to stay with us and have offered to compromise by staying in a hotel until I return from hospital. I do not want them to stay here, visit before the birth or immediately after the birth.

If pfb is a boy ILs will be pressuring us into having a circumcision on the 8th day (Jewish tradition). DH is atheist and does not see the point in circumcising but agrees with MIL that had he lived in Israel he would probably have allowed it. I am strongly against circumcision. I do not want the first 8 days of potential DS's life to be a battle. If it is a girl ILs will be welcome earlier but I still don’t want them here until I feel physically recovered and able to look after the baby. MIL takes over everything and she already objects to so many things we are planning to do. I don't want her here taking over and showing me how to do everything before I've even had a chance to try.

I don’t want ILs staying here because they have had no respect for my personal space and I need a break from MIL. She stands very close to me, talks very loudly and touches my arms and face a lot which I hate. Last time she was here she “helped” us by moving the contents of all of our kitchen cupboards around while we were at work. She feels entitled to give advice about literally anything, from my PhD to my clothing to the way we spend our free time. DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this.

In the interests of fairness I should mention that:

• In Israel a new baby is basically public property. ILs genuinely think it is normal to expect to have unlimited access to GC while they are here.
• ILs had much less involvement in our wedding than my parents and think they should be “paid back” now. They had almost no input because they were angry with DH for marrying a non-Jew so they refused to speak to him for ages. They changed their minds about 3 weeks before the wedding and expected us to change plans for them which we mostly couldn't do.
• Last time I spoke to FIL it was before the recent elections in Israel and we had a disagreement about politics. He has mainstream opinions which I find offensive (supports settlements and thinks that Palestine was never a county, does not have a culture and that Palestinians should just move to other Arab countries and stop hassling Israel). He is worried that I will try to “punish” him and MIL for their political views using access to their GC.
• DH is torn because he thinks that what ILs are doing is normal in their culture but not in mine. He views it as a cultural clash rather than ILs not respecting our choices.

AIBU to insist that ILs do not come here until they are invited, book return flights, stay in a hotel, and only visit for a couple of hours at a time? The way they are acting you would think I have said they will never meet the baby.

I'm going on what you said, Cactus.

The circumcision is clearly non-negotiable. Howwever, They are excited about first granchild. I think you are over reacting a bit about the rest. l would have loved to have had experienced grandparents available to help in the first few days of parenthood. You are the boss here - ask them to do useful stuff, e.g cooking, washing, shopping. The first few days of parenthood are ime exhausting with very little sleep and the more adults around to help,the better. You can get away by telling thwm you are going to feed baby and need privacy so to your room. They may be annoying but they wont be there for long. You will have 18 years or so with this child, dont get hung up about the first few weeks. Having them can help you give your full attention to the baby 24/7 when the baby wants you you will be available.

YANBU

Aside from politics,
You and DH need to be able to have a moment in time with your baby to be a new family.

How about upselling a visit when baby is 3 months? By then you really will be grateful of some time to yourself and will have your own routine. Sell it as a time when maybe they can stay with you for some of it (you and DH might be able to nip out for a short while too).

Maybe they could do a short trip after baby is born- a couple of days so that they can meet him/her?
Changing the emphasis might work?

I think your DH needs some support from friends or contemporaries on this (rather than you in your own bearing the burden) - I know normally on MN it's always 'tell him to grow a pair' - but I think he must be in a difficult emotional situation - a child cements the move from your parents being your family to you child being your family. Maybe he needs to post on Dadsnet or something. He's going to need some resolve and steel to sail his way through this and make everyone feel they got a good deal - but with diplomacy I think you both can support each other.

It sounds like you have both properly talked about it and that's a good sign: so often on MN you see the PIL situation played out and the dad doesn't step up to the mark for lots of reasons; but starting as you mean to carry on seems to be crucial (how often do you see an OP asking about a current situation when they bear a great weight of resentment about when Baby was born)

Op it is not reasonable to expect to stay for a finite amount before/after you have given birth. I would not compromise on this.

The only reasonable thing for them to do is to stay in a hotel or find a short term let.

They may very well be excited. However, may be your DH needs to kindly point out that your child will have another set of grandparents who will also want to visit.

Also, no one can predict what your birthing experience will be and how you will be after this. How is it going to be restful etc if you and he are 'hosting' for your IL's? What will happen your DH returns to work? They need to understand that any relatives wants come secondary to your very new family unit. Staying with you is not an option.

l would have loved to have had experienced grandparents available.

I think this is a very personal thing. I would have loathed having anyone for more than an hour or so at a time in the early days, grandparents included - and that's grandparents who respect my views on how we run our house and raise our child.

And I would have hated feeling exiled to my bedroom if I wanted some privacy to feed, cry, or whatever.

DH was home. He is a fully functional adult. Between us, it was fine and DS was very far from easy.

Speaking as someone with a MIL who likes to pick political arguments and adores DC, the arrival of our DC has greatly eased the situation, as now she is too busy talking about DD to have the energy for stoking rows about whatever she just heard on Radio 4.

The more I think about it the more strongly I feel how important the first few days are. Being able to wander around you house in a state of dishevelment and get your breasts out any and everywhere that makes you happy to establish breastfeeding and bonding is not to be underestimated. Looking in wonder at your baby with your DH the first night at home is a cherished memory.
Being in a situation that leaves you retiring to the bedroom to get away from them whilst your DH entertains them would make me incandescent.

It's about you, your DH and baby. It's a reset and reboot to life. It's not tiptoeing about at 4am cause someone else is in the house or retreating to your bedroom.

Your DH needs to tell his parents to put the tickets on hold and wait until they are invited. You both need to be firm about the circumcision issue if it's a boy, it isn't what you want to do any any child won't be Jewish so its not even an issue.

Cactus - But it WAS relevant to mention that her PILs are Israeli. It is relevant as indicates that they live in Israel and therefore will be flying in to visit and stay with OP and her DH for weeks, one of the issues that OP has. It is also relevant in respect to their desire to have a male GC circumcised, another issue for the OP. Lastly it is relevant because her FIL apparently has strong political views that he insists on sharing and he is making an issue of the fact that OP doesn't agree with him politically and therefore he accuses her of potentially punishing him by restricting access to the baby. It is perfectly relevant to OP's post to mention that her PILs are Israeli.

I can't believe you are hinting that the OP is anti-semitic in the manner of your lousy ex-boyfriend. That's extreme!

fastforward the first few days of parent hood is exhausting. And the last thing I want is my MIL in my house. Neither my mum or MIL are that experienced. It was a long time since they looked after babies.

I just read your OP to my Israeli DH and his first words were "Oh dear, this isn't going to end well...."

I agree with your DH that this is absolutely a culture clash and not the PILS purposely ignoring your wishes - I'm assuming here that everyone has good intentions, rather than anything malicious

BUT

They are being overbearing, even for Israelis. Even Israeli families living abroad wouldn't accept parents booking tickets for an open-ended visit without any prior discussion.

On the other hand, I think you need to be more understanding of the fact that they are coming from a different culture. This is very difficult for them. Yes, they do expect unfettered access to their GC. When you restrict this, they see it as hostility from you rather than this being accepted in your culture.

I think both sides need to compromise. You need to be a little bit less precious (sorry) about them coming to visit after the birth, they need to be more understanding that you need some space. But the person who needs to mediate this is your DH, not you.

Obviously, there's no compromise on circumcision - it's either yes or no -and you and your DH are entitled to make the decision for your child. But you should be aware of how culturally difficult this will be for your PILs. I'm not saying you should give in but just be aware of the importance of circumcision in Jewish culture and that it won't be easy for the PILs.

As for the politics, your FIL's views are most certainly not mainstream, at least from the Israelis I know. They sounds pretty extreme right-wing and I can assure you that he is more than used to vigorously defending them. I assume that if your DH is as left wing as you've said, then him and FIL have had plenty of heated debates on this subject. I recommend you leave them to fight it out, Israelis often become a lot more extreme at defending their position when they feel under attack from people from the outside.

Good luck and congratulations. I think your baby is really lucky to have GPs in his or her life who are going worship him or her as a demi-god :) There are some positives!

I wonder if you could recommend that they come when baby is about 6/8weeks? You could say that you want them to come when the baby is more social, smiling etc, DH is back at work etc? Newborns are pretty boring to be honest and it's much more fun when the baby is responsive.

Of course yanbu. Draw your line now. They will have to get used to it. No effing way would I allow my baby to be "circumcicesd".

Good luck op!!!!

If your PIL wanted a grandson to be circumcised they should have ensured that they gave their son a much more orthodox upbringing so that he would only have married someone Jewish. They only have themselves to blame.

You are not Jewish and they are very lucky that you have tried to learn Hebrew and are so accepting of their culture. Many women would not have made so much effort. DH should tell his parents that although you both intend to teach your child about their mixed cultural heritage, circumcision won't be happening and he isn't prepared to discuss it with them.

You are the one giving birth which gives you the right to say who visits and when. In order to recover well from the delivery and establish bf you need privacy and rest.Your DH needs to put your needs first for the welfare of his child, no matter how much fuss his parents make. This is his first opportunity to show how he intends to look after his wife and child while facing a problem.

Do not ever discuss politics with your PIL! If they start to mention anything about Likud or settlements just change the subject in the same way you would with any other taboo matter that you don't want to talk about.

With DHs help you can arrange for PIL to visit but manage to keep everyone happy by putting proper boundaries in place before your due date. Talk to your DH and explain what you want to happen so that you can tackle this together.

I am Jewish and married to a Jewish man but we had similar problems during the early years of our marriage as my family are much more British and assimilated in outlook than my DHs so I can totally see your point of view with all this. As long as DH puts you first everything will be fine.

Congratulations and Mazeltov on your new baby!

OP, I think if you take the aggressive tone suggested by some of the posters then you're going to insult and alienate your PILs. I'm guessing this is not your intent. A little understanding goes a long way...

Love the idea that she should compromise because "restricting access" to the GC (normal in Op's culture) will be seen as an act of hostility, but rejecting their son's choice of wife is something they should both just get past!

They are lucky you even speak to them.

The first few days after childbirth can be really tough. My breasts were leaking, I struggled to breastfeed (couldn't wear a bra and just stuck breast pads to the inside of an old t-shirt!), I was emotional and didn't want to see anyone. I certainly didn't want to be entertaining guests, having DD passed around or doing anything that wasn't what I wanted to do. Therefore YADNBU to restrict visitors until you're ready.

Plus, I presume there will be other people who want to meet the baby as well as the ILs. I would probably agree that the first two weeks you want to be alone with only very short visits from ILs. DH will have to make this super clear and also be very good at getting the ILs to leave.

DH and I had a code word we used when I'd had enough and just wanted the baby back and some peace and quiet. His job would be to move the guests on. It's quite useful to have that for use in emergencies. DH also need to totally back you up with regards to getting the baby back from guests when feeding (either bottle or breast). I found heading upstairs to feed was the perfect break (and I could stay there as long as I wanted, I'd just pretend DD took ages to feed or say I'd fallen asleep ). I BF, so only I could do it, but even if you bottle feed, you may wish to have skin to skin contact (or just enjoy the snuggles)

You need to definitely agree with your DH what the plan is post birth so he can communicate that to his parents. I preferred short visits rather than one big long one, so it might be worth thinking about having them visit for an hour in the morning/afternoon every other day, or similar. If they know when the next visit is, they might be more keen to leave too. It also leaves time for others to visit.

Maybe encourage them to bring a tablet etc with them so you can set it up for Skype/facetime when they go home. Making sure they can use it. I wonder if they're scared of what they'll miss out on once they return home so being active in facilitating this, might just make them feel confident to leave [maybe!!]

I think trying to compromise without being walked over is a fine line to tread and of course no-one really gets what they want.

Andrewofg I did exactly what you recommend re 'getting it done' and I regret it more than I can say. There is no comparison between having your baby circumcised and some sort of planning project. If you're standing outside the room when a GP/mohel is slicing into your son's penis, you want to be doing it because you are convinced it is the right thing to do. That is not the case for the OP.

meandjulio Your son may be glad of it one day.

The OP's child will have Jewish GPs and perhaps other relations. The possibility that s/he will want to become Jewish is not some sort of random off-chance - it is enough of a prospect to be worth considering.

I think you're being very unfair. They want to come and help, they're very excited, and you have already made up your mind you don't like them and won't tolerate them in your home.

You need to accept that your baby is half-Israeli, has Jewish heritage and will benefit from these people in his/her life. It's not all about what you are comfortable with, it's about thinking of the whole family and letting people share in your joy and excitement.

Being loud, talkative, interfering, over-enthusiastic, intruding on your personal space, not speaking English, getting in the way... these are not 'bad' things or purposefully done to annoy you. How do you think your DH feels that you reject his parents and shut them out? Why should they behave in a British, Westernized way? If you visited them in Israel you would have a very different welcome to the one you are about to give them. You can't reject his culture or expect them to behave in a way you are familiar with.

I do understand your need for privacy and quiet after the birth... but what about everyone else? Babies have a family not just a mother. Can't you set some rules and have quiet time in your room?

You're lucky to have in-laws who care so much and are coming long distance to help out. How rude and unkind to push them away and shut them out in this manner.

Please be aware though, that in order to reach agreement, there will need to be compromise from all parties.

Er....utter bollocks.
The OP is giving birth to her first child. Why on earth should she have to compromise or even reach an agreement on anything????

The IL's have completely overstepped the mark booking flights without consulting the OP or her DH. I would be absolutely fucking furious if my IL's did this. It is so disrespectful to the OP and her DH and completely selfish.
I could not think of anything worse than having to negotiate with IL's in visiting times having just has my first baby.

You need to accept that your baby is half-Israeli, has Jewish heritage and will benefit from these people in his/her life. It's not all about what you are comfortable with

Yes but not while in labour or within hours/days of giving birth

AndrewFogg the notion that any parent should arrange to hack off part of their baby's genitalia on the off-chance that he might choose a particular religion is utterly appalling- but then, I cannot understand why any civilised society tolerates non-medical genital mutilation of newborn boys.

OP- you absolutely do not have to have to host any guests when you have just given birth. Your in-laws will always be the baby's grandparents- that doesn't mean you have to be dictated to in your own home when you are exhausted, vulnerable, and getting used to a newborn.

The relationship with the baby's grandparents will not suffer one jot if they wait a few weeks to see the baby, or if they stay in a hotel. However, your relationship with your baby is likely to be much more stressful if you are forced to hand him/her over whenever your inlaws demand- and your relationship with them might never recover.