Israeli in-laws staying after pfb birth

[Roooary]

Pfb is due in June. DH is Israeli but has lived in the UK for 10 years. I am English and not Jewish. My ILs live in Israel and this will be their first GC. Yesterday I found out that ILs have booked flights for 2 weeks before due date. They have not consulted me or DH or booked a hotel or return flights home. DH spoke to them and they were expecting to stay with us and have offered to compromise by staying in a hotel until I return from hospital. I do not want them to stay here, visit before the birth or immediately after the birth.

If pfb is a boy ILs will be pressuring us into having a circumcision on the 8th day (Jewish tradition). DH is atheist and does not see the point in circumcising but agrees with MIL that had he lived in Israel he would probably have allowed it. I am strongly against circumcision. I do not want the first 8 days of potential DS's life to be a battle. If it is a girl ILs will be welcome earlier but I still don’t want them here until I feel physically recovered and able to look after the baby. MIL takes over everything and she already objects to so many things we are planning to do. I don't want her here taking over and showing me how to do everything before I've even had a chance to try.

I don’t want ILs staying here because they have had no respect for my personal space and I need a break from MIL. She stands very close to me, talks very loudly and touches my arms and face a lot which I hate. Last time she was here she “helped” us by moving the contents of all of our kitchen cupboards around while we were at work. She feels entitled to give advice about literally anything, from my PhD to my clothing to the way we spend our free time. DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this.

In the interests of fairness I should mention that:

• In Israel a new baby is basically public property. ILs genuinely think it is normal to expect to have unlimited access to GC while they are here.
• ILs had much less involvement in our wedding than my parents and think they should be “paid back” now. They had almost no input because they were angry with DH for marrying a non-Jew so they refused to speak to him for ages. They changed their minds about 3 weeks before the wedding and expected us to change plans for them which we mostly couldn't do.
• Last time I spoke to FIL it was before the recent elections in Israel and we had a disagreement about politics. He has mainstream opinions which I find offensive (supports settlements and thinks that Palestine was never a county, does not have a culture and that Palestinians should just move to other Arab countries and stop hassling Israel). He is worried that I will try to “punish” him and MIL for their political views using access to their GC.
• DH is torn because he thinks that what ILs are doing is normal in their culture but not in mine. He views it as a cultural clash rather than ILs not respecting our choices.

AIBU to insist that ILs do not come here until they are invited, book return flights, stay in a hotel, and only visit for a couple of hours at a time? The way they are acting you would think I have said they will never meet the baby.

You're lucky to have in-laws who care so much and are coming long distance to help out. How rude and unkind to push them away and shut them out in this manner.

Oh FFS

I just wondered what a (secular)Christian is? Would that just be an ordinary atheist or agnostic?

When you are in labour, giving birth, and recovering from your birth while caring for your newborn baby , it is totally about what you are comfortable with.

theboat I CANNOT believe you are suggesting that a post partum woman is restricted to her bedroom because her house should be overrun with relatives.

And the GPs aren't going to take it kindly if she takes the baby off to the bedroom with her, are they, so she can feed in peace, or feel comfortable flopping her boobs out?

Yes, the baby is part of a wider family, but in the first few weeks (when they are basically still gestating) nothing is more important for the welfare of the baby than having a happy and relaxed mum. There will be years for it to be part of a wider family, get to know it's grandparents and Jewish heritage.

And as for the poster who is suggesting circumcising on the off chance, words fail me.

Inertia If you disapprove of the Jewish practice of circumcising boys then of course you are going to find what I say appalling. Would you forbid it?

And what if the OP's child doesn't grow up to become religious? How does he get his foreskin back? (hint: he can't)

No, I'm aware he can't!

But I don't think he'll miss it. Do vast numbers of men who are not Jewish and who were born in hospitals where it is (or was at the time) routine miss theirs?

But I don't think he'll miss it. Do vast numbers of men who are not Jewish and who were born in hospitals where it is (or was at the time) routine miss theirs?

What an utterly stupid comment

My brother does, Andrewofgg, and had a go at my parents once for doing it to him (we are not Jewish). So, yes, certainly some of them do.

I've no idea. You mightn't miss your left hand if it was amputated at birth for religious reasons. Doesn't mean we should practise that form of mutilation. Or does it?

Anyway, the OP has said that she and her DH have agreed that they are not having their baby circumcised, so your 'advice' is rather pointless.

theboatisleaking I don't think it's the OP that made up her mind she didn't like them - did you miss the bit where they were totally opposed to her marriage to their son?
They certainly don't seem to be making any effort to meet her in the middle, culturally, so I don't see why she has to make all the sacrifices and potentially ruin the first few weeks of her baby's life hosting an overbearing couple who don't seem to care for her.

I think children benefit from having gps who respect the parents.

OP, when are your parents getting to visit and spend time with the baby?

Maybe your dh could point out to his parents that it's not all about them.

andrewfogg apparently quite a lot of circumcised men do miss their foreskins. Hardly surprising, as it has at least 20 functions. And the latest piece of research indicates a link between infant circumcision and autism. www.rsm.ac.uk/about-us/media-information/2015-media-releases/ritual-circumcision-linked-to-increased-risk-of-autism-in-young-boys.aspx
As the parent of an autistic child I find that a little bit more compelling than 'he might want to be religious one day'.

Andrew of gg, you speak as if there are no disadvantages to being circumcised.
Perhaps many men don't miss their foreskins, but their future girlfriends or partners might... I know I did :-(

I've heard there's quite a large movement in america actually of men that are very angry they were never given the choice on the appearance/state of their genitalia. My son needs a circumcision for medical reasons but I still feel awful about it I don't know why anyone would subject a child to mutilation of their own body when they are too young to have a choice or a say.

Another thing to consider, OP, is if this visit stresses you and goes badly, you'll be on a fast track to PND.

YANBU. You will need to draw very clear boundaries and get your DH's support on this. You ILs need to respect your wishes.

Re OP "rejecting" her PIL - these posters seemed to have missed the point that it was the PIL who rejected her, solely because she was not Jewish.
OP seems to have tried to put that behind her, is respectful of her DHs heritage by learning Hebrew - but what an awful thing to do. It is very hard to ever forget that kind of prejudice.
The baby is going to have Jewish heritage and OP seems respectful of that. however, that does not mean that she has to put up with PIL dictating when they will arrive for a visit or that they will stay with their son and DIL, far less being rude enough to actually interfere and move personal possessions around.
If her parents had said "oh, you can't marry him because he's Jewish," then I hope most people would be horrified at such blatant prejudice. It works both ways.
Visits work best when they are at mutually convenient times. The prospect of a new Mum being forced to live with her hostile and interfering PIL for several weeks is not one that would fill most people with joy.

And if her DS decides to convert to Judaism, not being circumcised is a very small part of all he will be undergoing. Faith is not a decision to be entered into lightly and there will be many hours of religious instruction etc. He can be circumcised if he decides he wants to be circumcised. To suggest whipping off his foreskin "just in case" is akin to taking out his appendix "just in case".

I hate all this "oh you will be grateful for the help", what kind of help can someone provide at a time like this?! I can guarantee she won't be cooking and washing, your DH should be doing that, she'll be expecting to sit and hold your baby while you get on with things - yanbu

Add to that, having guests when you are having to walk around with your baps out to air the cracked skin

Not a time for house guests

In any case, even some observant Jews are now deciding not to circumcise their sons at 8 days old. Instead they practice Brit Shalom, a 'non cutting naming ceremony'.
In any case, both parents have decided their son won't be circumcised, and that is an end to the matter under British law.

Thank you for all of the messages.
ILs arguments pro circumcision seem to basically be that if it is a boy he might grow up to be Jewish or that I might convert, convert my DC and turn DH into a practicing Jew. They are not very religious but this is important to them. Unfortunately it is also important to me and DH and it is non-negotiable.
Someone (can’t find who – sorry) mentioned the possibility of a blessing of some kind. I didn’t realise there was such a thing. I will ask DH to think about it and talk to ILs. I would be fine with a blessing. There is a liberal synagogue very close to here which might do some kind of blessing. I think they are welcoming to mixed families but I don’t want to join a synagogue to take our DC because I’m atheist and it’s not even cultural for me, and DH won’t. I feel like that is totally his decision and if ILs want to encourage him to change his mind then they can but I won’t get involved. If DH suddenly decided to join the synagogue I wouldn’t object to him taking our DC but I can’t imagine that he will do that.
I don’t think I have ever lectured ILs about my opinions on Israel. My PhD is about human rights, international law and Tibet. ILs were very interested while I was writing it they would ask lots of questions. I would tell them what I was currently working on, they would connect it to something similar in Palestine and before you know it they’ve accused me of saying all kinds of things. I fell for that trick a few times before I realised it was foolish to answer their Tibet related questions.

I want my DC to have a healthy relationship with their extended family and that’s part of the reason I have worked so hard to learn Hebrew. I have visited them in Israel and I fully expect my DC to visit Israel when they’re older. I don’t have any extended family and I want my DC to grow up with cousins and aunts and uncles and grandparents and great grandparents, but I also expect to be a more important part of my DC’s life than they are.
Shakshuka it’s interesting to hear that unplanned, open-ended visits are not standard practice. Are you Israeli? How would you deal with that?

My worst nightmare with regards to ILs staying is that I will be struggling with breastfeeding and MIL will decide to bottle feed or butt in and try to help breast feeding. She literally has no respect for my personal space so it wouldn’t surprise me if she grabbed a boob to position it correctly or something all the while talking very fast in Hebrew about how I should do everything differently. I would tolerate that from a bf support nurse but definitely not from MIL.

Your baby, no one else's business. They need to back off and keep their mouths shut. DH should be standing up to them. It is perfectly possible to say firmly but nicely, 'Please don't talk to us about circumcision. We will make our own choices about our baby. We would prefer it if you did not pressure us at all. We love you but we will make our own decisions.'

If you strongly suspect you are going to be overwhelmed by your PILS at this time, then it will make an already demanding time, that much harder. So you do need to be firm in as kind a way as possible.

I'm Jewish and my PILs (not Israeli) were overbearing, judgemental, interfering and downright unpleasant. I came out of hospital to find everything rearranged and had lots of 'help' I really didn't want and couldn't handle. My own Mum had cancer at the time so couldn't be there for us, but I wish so much my husband had had the guts to stand up to his parents.

My dd is expecting her first and there is no way I'd invite myself to stay during or after the birth. If I'm asked i will go of course, but see my role as doing things that dd and dsil ask me to do, not what I decide they need. If you PIL don't respect your wishes/needs, then without causing a rift, you do need your DH to say what is going to be most helpful to you. I'm desperately excited about being a grandma, but if I am asked to wait a while before I see the new family, then so be it. It's not about me. And culture or not, it shouldn't be about your PIL's needs and wishes. Good luck. If you can find a way to make them feel wanted but on your terms then that would be really good.