Israeli in-laws staying after pfb birth

[Roooary]

Pfb is due in June. DH is Israeli but has lived in the UK for 10 years. I am English and not Jewish. My ILs live in Israel and this will be their first GC. Yesterday I found out that ILs have booked flights for 2 weeks before due date. They have not consulted me or DH or booked a hotel or return flights home. DH spoke to them and they were expecting to stay with us and have offered to compromise by staying in a hotel until I return from hospital. I do not want them to stay here, visit before the birth or immediately after the birth.

If pfb is a boy ILs will be pressuring us into having a circumcision on the 8th day (Jewish tradition). DH is atheist and does not see the point in circumcising but agrees with MIL that had he lived in Israel he would probably have allowed it. I am strongly against circumcision. I do not want the first 8 days of potential DS's life to be a battle. If it is a girl ILs will be welcome earlier but I still don’t want them here until I feel physically recovered and able to look after the baby. MIL takes over everything and she already objects to so many things we are planning to do. I don't want her here taking over and showing me how to do everything before I've even had a chance to try.

I don’t want ILs staying here because they have had no respect for my personal space and I need a break from MIL. She stands very close to me, talks very loudly and touches my arms and face a lot which I hate. Last time she was here she “helped” us by moving the contents of all of our kitchen cupboards around while we were at work. She feels entitled to give advice about literally anything, from my PhD to my clothing to the way we spend our free time. DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this.

In the interests of fairness I should mention that:

• In Israel a new baby is basically public property. ILs genuinely think it is normal to expect to have unlimited access to GC while they are here.
• ILs had much less involvement in our wedding than my parents and think they should be “paid back” now. They had almost no input because they were angry with DH for marrying a non-Jew so they refused to speak to him for ages. They changed their minds about 3 weeks before the wedding and expected us to change plans for them which we mostly couldn't do.
• Last time I spoke to FIL it was before the recent elections in Israel and we had a disagreement about politics. He has mainstream opinions which I find offensive (supports settlements and thinks that Palestine was never a county, does not have a culture and that Palestinians should just move to other Arab countries and stop hassling Israel). He is worried that I will try to “punish” him and MIL for their political views using access to their GC.
• DH is torn because he thinks that what ILs are doing is normal in their culture but not in mine. He views it as a cultural clash rather than ILs not respecting our choices.

AIBU to insist that ILs do not come here until they are invited, book return flights, stay in a hotel, and only visit for a couple of hours at a time? The way they are acting you would think I have said they will never meet the baby.

It is as much a life event for them as it is for you.

Catcus I am sorry - perhaps I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that my DH's family were like that because they were Jewish; I was giving examples of the culture clash I am navigating.

I absolutely agree with you, birth choices, feeding methods, parenting styles are nothing to do with religion. (Although clearly their opinions on circumcision are). I made no stereotypes about Jews, I was describing my DH's family.

My "huge sympathies" with the OP are for having to negotiation big differences in views with you DH/in laws. Whatever the cause of the difference it is really tough.

Perhaps I expressed myself badly, but I think you are projecting things into my post and the OPs that simply aren't there.

As to circumcision.

In every generation some people with a Jewish background decide being Jewish is for them. In Jewish law your child is not Jewish because you are not, and your child would have to go through the conversion process. If it's a boy it will be a lot less painful if he has had the snip as a child. If you and DH don't want the religious hoo-hah which goes on around it - and which is not applicable to a boy who is not technically Jewish - get it done medically; but get it done.

I think it is perfectly possible to criticise Israeli IR while still respecting Jewish culture and I had always assumed that was what I was doing.

It is, I wholehearedly agree with you on the political issues as do many other jews, israelis and people from all waks of society and religion - it doesn't make you racist fgs!

ILs are pretty secular. They had an orthadox wedding because it was the only option but they don't believe in God or keep kosher. DHs cousin is gay and ILs went to his wedding in the Canada.
DH doesn't have a great relationship with his parents partly because of the drama around our wedding. ILs changed their minds 3 weeks before and then wanted us to change a lot to suit them e.g. inviting another 80 people, holding a second ceremony in Cyprus, changing my wedding dress (I wore a green dress and they wanted me to wear white). We did cange some things for them. We included a Chuppah and ketubah and I wore a veil and he broke a glass.DH wasn't really fussed about any of that - it was all for his parents.

I put Israeli in the thread title because I was hoping that people who are familiar with Israeli culture would then notice and be able to explain some of it better than I can.

Rooary if you are from a Quaker background and IL's are Israeli Jewish then I can see a total culture clash (quite aside from the religious diffeences which are aother level including atheist)
You know the areas you do not want to compromise on- no circumcision, no IL's staying in the house. The pther stuff like political discussions, being overbearing, etc are less important.
It's tough, but discuss with DH what you could do to make the IL's happy-ish in return for them staying elsewhere and not circumcising the PFB. It could b anything from finding a short term apartment let nearby, having a blessing of some sort from a progressive Rabbi if you can tolerate that, anything that shows that you don't agree with them but are not shutting them out. Have an honest but not emotional conversation with IL's about the fact you all have different beliefs so none of you are really going to get wha you want.
Yes the IL's might be a total pain and you have every right to raise your child as you wish but in their minds they've always thought that as grandparents they would get to do these things.

Andrewofgg

So they should circumcise their baby on the off-chance he decides to become religious in the future?

Yes Janine that's what I am saying.

How bizarre

Yes, the israeli headline and going on about them being jewish and israeli politics did make it sound that you perhaps had issues there.

a 2 state solution does not equate to the destruction of israel, natanyahu himself claimed to be aiming for this before his public back track. A lot of british people feel involved in israel because of our government's heavy involvement and impact on what is happening.

BUT saying from personal experience of similar political conflict with my religious DF no it isn't worth getting into political arguments with family as it doesn't get you anywhere but i totally empaphise with the difficulty of having relatives with such strong, adverse political views!

andrew it's been made pretty clear op and her dh don't want a circumcision for their child, and in this country you can only get it done if it's medically necessary anyway otherwise you have to pay privately.

God, don't get into political clashing discussions with them. I had many israeli friends and usually it is better not to go there unless you share the same views. it's like an english Protestant trying to set right the experiences of a Belfast catholic or a southern gent taking to task black Americans about the good side of slavery.

Cactus - I am sorry too. I was multitasking when I wrote and I can see how you could have misread my post. I will try to be more careful in future.

OP - so pleased for you that you and DH agree on circumcision. Not an easy discussion when you disagree!

I think the OP is quite reasonably pointing out potential reasons for the conflicts between them - there is a clash of cultural expectations, and OP has acknowledged what those are.

You married into a culture (whether your dh has chosen to step outside of it, his family hasn't) and so the cultural norms come with his family, I'm afraid.

This is utter nonsense. OP's DH also married into a culture, because OP has her own culture and cultural norms. Why is it up to OP to accept the norms of another culture, rather than her DH?

These people seem to have tried to bully OP and her DH at every step. They seem to have tried to prevent the wedding by refusing to have any involvement until it became beyond obvious the wedding would go ahead regardless. Now they've announced they'll be moving in indefinitely around their grandchild's birth.

OP, it'd be a very firm 'no' from me! But then, my ILs didn't visit until DS was 2 weeks old (we didn't feel happy having them to stay in our tiny flat when I'd just given birth and was establishing breastfeeding; they didn't want to stay in a hotel) and my own parents who live abroad arrived when DS was 5 weeks, thinking that we'd be more settled by then and they could provide help and support after DH was back at work. They stayed a month - but not with us, they got a holiday rental. Reasonable and respectful people, my parents.

There are worse things than Grand parents that love your child intensely. Blended cultures in a family is hard but possible. You can have boundaries while inviting them to be a part of the baby's life. Agree with DH what you are and are not comfortable with and then have him communicate it. You may not see it yet but family that cares is amazing for child even if you don't see eye to eye. And someday you may be the mother of boy who married in to a different culture and will hope for some grace too.

Christ, I typed that slowly - huge x-post and half the post irrelevant, big apologies.

So many IL problems could be dolved if only the husbands in these situations would locate their balls and stop their parents from attempting to walk all over yheir wives. Tell your dh to grow the fuck up and tell his parents what is going to happen rather than leaving it up in the air.

Don't be afraid to point out to your ils need that their son has chosen to marry out of his culture and live abroad and they therefore must accept they won't be getting to stamp their will all over yours!

Don't let them behave as if your culture is less important than theirs. Yours is the culture in which their son has chosen to raise a family. I think it's awful that your mil cba to even learn how to pronounce your name.

They don't sound like the compromising type, which means either you or they are going to be unhappy. Make sure it isn't you!

"it's just as much a life event for them as it is for you"

What utter nonsense. Giving birth to your first child who will change your life forever and you are responsible for is completely different to becoming A GP who lives on a different continent

Israeli politics affects the whole Middle East, the USA, and the world.

I am quite entitled to have a view on Netanyahu, thanks.