Israeli in-laws staying after pfb birth

[Roooary]

Pfb is due in June. DH is Israeli but has lived in the UK for 10 years. I am English and not Jewish. My ILs live in Israel and this will be their first GC. Yesterday I found out that ILs have booked flights for 2 weeks before due date. They have not consulted me or DH or booked a hotel or return flights home. DH spoke to them and they were expecting to stay with us and have offered to compromise by staying in a hotel until I return from hospital. I do not want them to stay here, visit before the birth or immediately after the birth.

If pfb is a boy ILs will be pressuring us into having a circumcision on the 8th day (Jewish tradition). DH is atheist and does not see the point in circumcising but agrees with MIL that had he lived in Israel he would probably have allowed it. I am strongly against circumcision. I do not want the first 8 days of potential DS's life to be a battle. If it is a girl ILs will be welcome earlier but I still don’t want them here until I feel physically recovered and able to look after the baby. MIL takes over everything and she already objects to so many things we are planning to do. I don't want her here taking over and showing me how to do everything before I've even had a chance to try.

I don’t want ILs staying here because they have had no respect for my personal space and I need a break from MIL. She stands very close to me, talks very loudly and touches my arms and face a lot which I hate. Last time she was here she “helped” us by moving the contents of all of our kitchen cupboards around while we were at work. She feels entitled to give advice about literally anything, from my PhD to my clothing to the way we spend our free time. DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this.

In the interests of fairness I should mention that:

• In Israel a new baby is basically public property. ILs genuinely think it is normal to expect to have unlimited access to GC while they are here.
• ILs had much less involvement in our wedding than my parents and think they should be “paid back” now. They had almost no input because they were angry with DH for marrying a non-Jew so they refused to speak to him for ages. They changed their minds about 3 weeks before the wedding and expected us to change plans for them which we mostly couldn't do.
• Last time I spoke to FIL it was before the recent elections in Israel and we had a disagreement about politics. He has mainstream opinions which I find offensive (supports settlements and thinks that Palestine was never a county, does not have a culture and that Palestinians should just move to other Arab countries and stop hassling Israel). He is worried that I will try to “punish” him and MIL for their political views using access to their GC.
• DH is torn because he thinks that what ILs are doing is normal in their culture but not in mine. He views it as a cultural clash rather than ILs not respecting our choices.

AIBU to insist that ILs do not come here until they are invited, book return flights, stay in a hotel, and only visit for a couple of hours at a time? The way they are acting you would think I have said they will never meet the baby.

When I read your OP, I was a bit sympathetic to your PILs. It's not easy for them that their son has married out and lives far away and dealing with all the cultural differences - like touching while talking.

But they really sound awful, regardless of culture. I think it's probably hard for you untangling what is unacceptable and what is down to culture. What does your DH say?

" ILs have already made a lot of unnecessary comments about the pregnancy and our parenting plans. They aren't happy that our DC will not be Jewish or Israeli. They don't want me to breastfeed. MIL has already offered her niece to come over here to be our nanny so that DC can develop Hebrew and a Jewish identity if DH fails. We don't want a nanny. When that was suggested in a skype conversation I was shocked and I said it made me feel like MIL was trying to dilute my influence on my DC and she smiled and said something about just wanting to make sure that DH was represented. DH lives here and does not work away and he will be representing himself in our DC's life. There have also been a few snide comments about my parents being more involved already and how they're not willing to take a backseat role like they did in the wedding. They had a lesser role in our wedding because throughout most of the planning they were refusing to come."

I am genuinely shocked by this woman's behaviour and attitude towards you. I'm not sure I would be able to welcome her into my home at all, even if I was firing on all cylinders. Post-partum and feeling vulnerable, she could wreak havoc on your self-confidence. Your DH needs to set very firm boundaries with her; but even if he does, I would have a backup plan, such as a 'safe house' you could escape to if necessary. One that she doesn't know the address of. I know that sounds extreme, but frankly so does she.

Wow! Outrageous!

I wouldn't let them stay now.

Another one who is shocked at how continually antagonistic both PIL are to you. Sometimes it is overt , sometimes PA, like the face stroking when your body language will be giving clear signals.
It sounds as if they want to impose their belief system (not just cultural) on your child and have no respect or regard for you or your DH.
They raised their son as an Israeli Jew but he has chosen a different way in life. The appearance if a GC dies not mean they get to dictate how that child will be brought up.
They do not sound loving, helpful or considerate people, but dominating and controlling.
I hope your DH can make it clear that while you both know they will want to be a part of their GCs life, you are the parents and will make the decisions you feel are right. Staying with you before and after the birth is not negotiable. Perhaps he could hint that their attitude is threatening to widen the gap they opened when they first rejected you and that they have to start making an effort to recognise they are interfering and need to take several steps back or risk isolating themselves from your family.

Their son is the one who has rejected their religion. My mother was really good about this - she lived hundreds of miles away and know we would want to bond as a unit and kept away. A visit would have been 2 or 3 days and not staying here. That is English culture for many (middle class anyway) and it works well.

I think your husband or you needs to think of the best way to handle this. You can comment along the lines of
We will be so grateful for the help when the baby arrives but we are having no visitors even family until the baby is about 10 days old as that is the culture here so by all means fly to the UK and enjoy a holiday but we will not b accepting visitors until the baby is 10 days old. At that point brief visits fof 2 or 3 hours a day would be lovely particularly if you are happy to help with washing and meals. The baby will be fully breastfed so with me at all times and as you already know as we are atheists there is no question of circumcism if it is a boy. I suggest you change your flights to arrive 10 days after the baby is born and probably best to fly home a week later and I am afraid you will need to stay in a hotel as we will not be able to accommodate anyone here. We do want to ensure the baby has a good relationship with all relatives and are so pleased you want to play a part in its life.

katie's comment above is good too - these relatives might be so dense they do not see that wha they are doing is going to ensure much less good contact in future. They need to play the longer game. When the child is bigger a 3 or 4 week summer holiday trip to grandparents in Israel could be a lovely opportunity on a regular basis particular if you both work and need the childcare. He can gain a lot from that as long as you and his father remain the main influence.

Are you close to your won parents? In Jewish culture, the maternal line is usually more dominant within the family. You may find it helpful to make it clear to your ILs that your own mother will be providing you with support around the time of the birth and the weeks after. They are perfectly welcome to visit a 2 or 3 days a week for a couple of hours, but in your home it will be a time for you and your husband to bond with the baby. This is your culture, not theirs.

Also make it clear that any mutilation of your child's genitalia for "cultural" reasons is not a topic for conversation and if it is alluded to in any way they will not be welcome in your house.

You need to be firm and strong now or face a lifetime of regret about these precious weeks being spoilt.

"MIL has already offered her niece to come over here to be our nanny so that DC can develop Hebrew and a Jewish identity if DH fails."

so no respect for OP & bugger all for their son by the sounds of things!

People keep going on about help.

Initially, two parents, one baby.

When husband back at work, OP might want help.

I wanted to get used to being with baby myself.

Housework could be left for my husband to do outside of work if necessary.

All I had to do was feed, clean & dress myself & the baby.

I often wonder what needs doing that the parents can't mange between them tbh.

They sound worse and worse.

DH really needs to lay down the law with them and be clear about what's unacceptable in what they have already said and done. When they said about being left out of the wedding, did either of you point out that's because they were refusing to come?

Thank you for all of the messages. I really appreciate all of the support.
SilverBirch I am close to my parents and my parents will be helping us. I am expecting that to be another possible conflict though because ILs feel that my parents had their turn at being the most involved parents at our wedding, so it's their turn now.
Having slept and come back to this thread feeling more confident that I'm not a terrible person, I do feel like I have only written the bad things about my ILs. They were in the UK for a while in December and they were really excited then and were trying to be polite. I'm veggie which my ILs are totally unable to comprehend but they managed to avoid making any comments to me about how I should eat meat to help the baby grow / eat liver to get iron etc, even though I could tell they really wanted to say it. MIL has already knitted quite a few baby things and has listened to advice to knit very big because this will be a June baby and hopefully won't need lots of newborn knitted things.
I like the idea of setting up a secret hide away place somewhere they don't know. That sounds like the perfect excuse to move to my sister's house and eat cake in peace. I don't think it would ever come to that though. DH has been on my side whenever his parents have forced him to choose a side and I can't imagine he would change now.

In that case it may not be as bad as you think. I suppose in some families they totally cut off their child who rejects the religion (it's the death penalty in 9 countries internationally if you reject your religion (Islam of course)). So at least they are keeping up contact. I certainly don't think even something like learning Hebrew would do an atheist child any harm but what is more harming is the "interference" which in many countries is seen as love by over bearing relatives. I will always be grateful to my parents for NOT being here actually. Being totally alone with a baby and with its father is absolutely wonderful. the last thing some of us want is anyone at all around. I think it comes down to your basic personality.

Don't reject all help. They might even want to pay school fees from age 4 and that would be a wonderful gift. My daughter was not at a religious school but that had Jewish assembly at her private school as well as other assemblies and she often went to that (as it was quickest!!) and that certainly did her no harm as a nominal Catholic. Exposure to different cultures and other countries can bring huge advantages to children as long as people don't snip bits off their penis.

My view is you need to negotiate the relationship with them, but you don't need to do it during those first precious weeks when you are overtired, possibly in pain after the birth and likely to be emotional.
You will need a bit more resilience to mange this situation without a disaster.

You should postpone their visit until you feel able to cope with them.

I don't understand about the need for help either. I had 3 kids and never needed anyone to help with any of them. Nor did I want any. I understand OP wants to breastfeed, surely her husband can help with housework, cooking etc as needed.

I mean I obviously understand if you've had a tough birth or are maybe nervous about being alone with baby.

But for me the thought of someone else in the house sounded awful.

And I know that my mum, with the best will in the world probably wouldn't have cooked/cleaned/waited on me.

She would just have wanted to be with me & the baby all the time & I know that I would have felt stifled.

MIL would have driven me mad with indecisiveness!

We often had a feed at 7am, husband brought me tea & toast before going to work & then baby & I slept until 11!

But after feeding a few times in the night, those 4 solid hours were sacred!!

My inlaws are the kind that sit around expecting to be waited on hand and foot and won't so much as make themselves a cup of tea. (They didn't even speak to me on our wedding day despite all of their requests being accommodated.).

No way did I need that after an assisted birth and with a tiny newborn to feed etc.

"I like the idea of setting up a secret hide away place somewhere they don't know. That sounds like the perfect excuse to move to my sister's house and eat cake in peace. I don't think it would ever come to that though."
I sincerely hope it would not. I am a 'hope for the best, plan for the worst' sort of person, and I find that if I have thought something through and have an escape plan that I can tolerate a lot more! Feeling trapped in something because I haven't decided what my fall-back position is, I am a good deal more anxious about the shit hitting the fan. But if I have considered what I would do in such a situation, I actually feel more able to manage the situation and keep aiming for a better outcome that a shitty fan IYSWIM. It's sort of like fire drills - knowing the plan and what to do doesn't make it more likely that there will be a fire, but does stop the panic and allow a stress-free evacuation. The more you can minimise stress at such a time, the better.

OP, would you consider telling your DH that the stress his parents are putting on you has made you seriously consider putting in place a "bolt hole"? Because I find it pretty shocking that their behaviour might actually drive you out of your own home. Perhaps if your DH understood the very great effect they have on your wellbeing then it might encourage him to be more pro active with them and thus avoid any further stress for you?

Hopefully the thought won't be as bad as the reality!

I can see how them travelling all this way puts pressure on to see them for as long as possible every day.

They will want to make the most of their time with their GC, son & hopefully you which is understandable as after the visit, when might they visit again?

Perhaps it could at least be agreed in advance that they won't be with you all day everyday?

And the knowing that you could go elsewhere if necessary should take some pressure off as well.

Just realised that I got that the wrong way round!

Hopefully the reality won't be as bad...

Yanbu. You need to put your foot down as others have said, but do it all before the birth,as after the birth you will be to exhausted and fragile.

Can you tell them you'll be going to your mum's for the birth? And then change your mind later on just before the birth?

Op, How long until you have your baby?

I cant remember if you've already said.

The PILS sound like a nightmare, especially MIL. Your DH needs to support you and to manage them. This should be his job, not your's.

Not that it really makes any difference, bonkers PILS are bonkers PILS no matter the nationality or religion, but what ethnicity are they? Ashkenazi? Sephardi? Any what type?

Quick update for everyone who gave advice.
ILs are coming to the UK on the same flights but they are going to visit other family in Europe straight away. When DC is born they are going to stay with my dparents for 2 weeks then they are going touristing in France. They will come back to the UK for a couple of days before going back to Israel but they will only stay with us if I am feeling up to it at the time.
All being well, we will have a naming ceremony when the baby is 8 days old and if it is a ds there will be no circumcision. DH is looking into the possibility of having a rabbi to do a blessing at the ceremony but it seems to be more complicated than we had originally assumed becaue DH is not practicing and has not attended a synagogue in the UK and we are not planning to raise dc to be religious.
This feels like a plan which will work and everyone sees happy with it atm.

Well done!

Well done Rooary. I'm glad you've I've managed to come with a plan that works well for you and DH and that is acceptable to you ILs.

Honestly, Rooary, you've done nothing wrong! You're smart, sensible and calm. I personally don't think the ILs have done anything wrong either. The only problem is your DH. He's happy to let you take the blame for not celebrating his own culture when he's the one who has no interest. I personally like it when people engage in their own culture and history so I'd never be attracted to someone like him but, either way, I wouldn't let him make me the villain.