Israeli in-laws staying after pfb birth

[Roooary]

Pfb is due in June. DH is Israeli but has lived in the UK for 10 years. I am English and not Jewish. My ILs live in Israel and this will be their first GC. Yesterday I found out that ILs have booked flights for 2 weeks before due date. They have not consulted me or DH or booked a hotel or return flights home. DH spoke to them and they were expecting to stay with us and have offered to compromise by staying in a hotel until I return from hospital. I do not want them to stay here, visit before the birth or immediately after the birth.

If pfb is a boy ILs will be pressuring us into having a circumcision on the 8th day (Jewish tradition). DH is atheist and does not see the point in circumcising but agrees with MIL that had he lived in Israel he would probably have allowed it. I am strongly against circumcision. I do not want the first 8 days of potential DS's life to be a battle. If it is a girl ILs will be welcome earlier but I still don’t want them here until I feel physically recovered and able to look after the baby. MIL takes over everything and she already objects to so many things we are planning to do. I don't want her here taking over and showing me how to do everything before I've even had a chance to try.

I don’t want ILs staying here because they have had no respect for my personal space and I need a break from MIL. She stands very close to me, talks very loudly and touches my arms and face a lot which I hate. Last time she was here she “helped” us by moving the contents of all of our kitchen cupboards around while we were at work. She feels entitled to give advice about literally anything, from my PhD to my clothing to the way we spend our free time. DH agreed after last time that ILs will not stay here again but thinks that a baby changes this.

In the interests of fairness I should mention that:

• In Israel a new baby is basically public property. ILs genuinely think it is normal to expect to have unlimited access to GC while they are here.
• ILs had much less involvement in our wedding than my parents and think they should be “paid back” now. They had almost no input because they were angry with DH for marrying a non-Jew so they refused to speak to him for ages. They changed their minds about 3 weeks before the wedding and expected us to change plans for them which we mostly couldn't do.
• Last time I spoke to FIL it was before the recent elections in Israel and we had a disagreement about politics. He has mainstream opinions which I find offensive (supports settlements and thinks that Palestine was never a county, does not have a culture and that Palestinians should just move to other Arab countries and stop hassling Israel). He is worried that I will try to “punish” him and MIL for their political views using access to their GC.
• DH is torn because he thinks that what ILs are doing is normal in their culture but not in mine. He views it as a cultural clash rather than ILs not respecting our choices.

AIBU to insist that ILs do not come here until they are invited, book return flights, stay in a hotel, and only visit for a couple of hours at a time? The way they are acting you would think I have said they will never meet the baby.

But the baby won't be Jewish as you're not, and Jewishness comes from the mother, so why would they be concerned about a circumcision anyway?

Huge sympathies. My DH is Jewish, I am not. His family all FF, chose to have ELCS and were relaxed about using childcare from the beginning. My Hypnobirthing, breastfeeding, anti-circumsision, attachment leanings were viewed with some suspicion!

I agree with littlefish that the only way to make it work in the long run is to compromise. You and your DH have to be happy about the choices you make for your family. IMO what his parents want doesn't really matter, but what he wants does matter.

Really good luck trying to broker a comprise that works for you both. It took me and DH a lots of difficult discussions, and to be honest we are still navigating our culture clash, however we are getting better at it!

Had similar with the outlaws when DD was born. We'd said all along they'd have to stay in a hotel. When the time came they refused to come unless they could stay with us. DH put pressure on me to agree. I didn't. We still disagree about it now. I don't regret saying no.

Blaze, how do you compromise on circumcision?! Just cut a bit off but not all?!

They sound like a nightmare! Your DH needs to get off the fence and tell them what's what

There is a culture clash, and one side is not going to be happy with the outcome, and that is your pils.

Your DH married you and lives in your culture. You are the mother and what you says goes.

I know people whose relationship with their pils was permanently ruined because of resentment about how they affected bonding with Pfb.

You can be sympathetic about theirs expectations, so very short few days visit a few weeks after birth then a couple of weeks a few months in, staying in a hotel if you prefer might be something you could consider, but this is your child your preferences, these take priority.

I know I'd would never have established breastfeeding if I'd had relatives I didn't want around causing stress in the first few days.

Agree with poster who said the only thing that changes with you becoming a mother is that you will take even less shit than before. DH really needs to be clear with them.

And raging hormones are a brilliant excuse for being very rude back to an overbearing woman with no sense of boundaries.

Can you line up a plan b in case your wishes are overridden? (So line up someone you can stay with if your dh won't fight your corner?) Post-birth you can always retire to your bed with your baby and only emerge when you see fit.

Unless the PIL live in a total vacuum they will be well aware that not every culture is the same as their own. Moving somebody else's possessions in their own home is generally regarded as incredibly rude.
They will also be aware that not having booked a return ticket sends a very clear signal to you and your DH - which is "we are going to stay for as long as we want and there is nothing you can do about it."

They set down the lines when they reacted badly regarding you marriage and can hardy expect to have a convivial relationship with the DIL they rejected solely on the grounds she was not Jewish. (I had hassle from my ex PIL over a mixed marriage too - although I as the practicing Christian and their son was a lapsed Catholic!) Throughout their interactions with you they have made it clear they do not respect you and respect is a two-way street - they have to give respect in order to earn it.

However, as the mother of their future GC your relationship with them is changing and I hope they will start to be more polite and considerate when they visit.

Stand firm on the issue of circumcision. Also on them not staying with you - even people who have very close relationships with their PIL (and their own parents) would cringe at the thought of them moving in for an indefinite period of time, far less two weeks before you give birth. It's outrageous behaviour to do this without even checking it is okay with you.

let them find somewhere to stay and make sure you DH tells them in no uncertain terms that your DS wil stay intact and that his foreskin is nothing to do with them.

And just to be on the safe side, don't leave DS alone with them. Sounds mad, but exFIL took newborn DH out of the hospital, got him christened and then returned him to his mother.

When I say you're the mother and what yih says goes, I mean rather than pils dictating, but you should listen to what your DH wants (which is not just what his parents want) and broker a compromise where possible.

Just to be clear, if I have a DS then he will not be circumcised under any circumstances. DH and I are both against it and you can’t have a circumcision in the UK without the parents’ consent. I have checked this because, in a particularly uncharitable moment, I did wonder whether ILs might try to arrange a circumcision without us knowing.
Thank you for all of the replies.
Azure – I have learned to speak Hebrew. FIL is fluent in English but MIL doesn’t speak any English at all. She has not even learned how to say my name properly. I have never encouraged ILs to talk to me about their political beliefs because I don’t want to hear it. These conversations usually start when ILs make some kind of comment about my pacifist beliefs (my family are Quaker). That particular conversation started because FIL had been out canvassing for Likud and was recounting a conversation he had had.

Exactly, where can you compromise? Either they stay or they don't. There is no real half measures here and the risks to the mother's well-being, I think, override any 'cultural norms'.

Cactus, I think you're being unfair. I don't think OP sounds anti-Jewish. She disagrees with circumcision and has different political views to her FIL about Israel and Palestine. I know many secular Jews who would agree with the Op's stance on both.

And her MIL sounds overbearing in any culture - it's not acceptable to rearrange someone ekse's kitchen cupboards anywhere that I know of!

I think it is a culture clash. You should stick firm about the circumcision of course but try and relax about other things.

Are they orthodox or Haredim or anything? Most Israelis I know are very secular but they can come across as loud, arrogant and controlling, very, very different from british characteristics. If you give them a chance they are often also very warm, loyal and caring.

You sound like you really don't like Jews, Jewish culture, or Israel very much at all.

Not fair at all and a very prejudiced view of the facts as given
OP is married to a Jew, so she likes at least one.
She has made the effort to learn Hebrew. MIL has not bothered to learn English and cannot even make the effort to say her DILs name correctly.
Disagreeing with the Israeli political stance on Palestine (the one comment OP made about Israel) does not equate to not liking Israel - merely one aspect of Israel. And OP is entitled to have her own opinions on things, even if they are opposed to the beliefs of her PIL. that does not make her racist.

What you could have said was: It sounds as if MIL really doesn't like Gentiles, non-Jewish culture and PIL is quite zenophobic.

Ok, just reread you op. I think it would be better for them to perhaps wait until the baby is born and then visit rather than be hanging around.

Isn't the circumcision unlikely to be an issue given that you aren't Jewish and the baby won't be Jewish? I thought that you can't do a bris unless the mother is Jewish.

My DH is Jewish, as is the lady I employ as a mother's helper. Their tendency to dish out advice over the smallest triviality is as much about them being from Queens NY, as it is about them being Jewish. But I do see parallels between them and my own family, who are from Liverpool, and conform to the close-knit, bold-as-brass stereotype, so we generally get along.

I will say that both MIL and mother's helper have rearranged my furniture and cupboards without my asking .

Disappointed the compromise is that one of you has to come to terms with not getting what you want. Someone has to give way, and accept doing so, the other has to appreciate what their partner is giving up. It is precisely because there is no middle ground on this one that you have to work so hard at understanding how the other person feels. It is a really difficult issue.

CactusAnnie, I'm not sure what I've said to suggest I don't Jews, Jewish culture, Israel or Israelis. Could you elaborate?
Back when DH proposed I wasn't really very clued up about Jewish culture because he is athiest and doesn't keep any Jewish traditions. One of my closest friends from university is Israeli and she had told me enough that I thought I was very lucky that his family were so relaxed. I assumed they knew I wasn't Jewish but he had never told them until after he had proposed to me. I feel like it was DHs job to help his parents adapt to the lifestyle he has chosen.
I have tried to learn Hebrew. I can have a conversation and follow their conversations and I can read and write a little bit. One of DHs second cousins stayed with us for 7 months when we were first married and that helped me understand his family a lot because the cousin came to us straight from the army.
I do disagree with a lot of Israel's international relations decisions but so does DH. He worked for Peace Now for several years and opposes settlements and supports a Palestinian state. DH is more extreme than me in this because he thinks that giving up all of Jerusalem would be a reasonable price to pay for peace, where as I think a divided city is more likelyto be a successful compromise.
I'm quite shocked to hear that you think I come across as not respectful of Jewish culture. I think it is perfectly possible to criticise Israeli IR while still respecting Jewish culture and I had always assumed that was what I was doing.

You say no, and put your foot down. Either they wait until invited and stay in a hotel or do as they wish and be turned away at the door - they cannot just assume they will be staying and dictating what goes on in your home.

I didn't get the impression that the OP is anti-Jewish (she's married one, after all!) although she's got the in-laws from hell which are available in all cultures.

husband needs to grow a pair and make it clear that parents are NOT staying with you, that a boy will not be circumcised and that you want some peace after the birth. You can then compromise on visits etc once the ground rules are laid. You are British and they are visitors, so they fit in. That said, they are one set of the baby's grandparents so hopefully common ground will appear.

the baby does not have a Jewish mother and is not Jewish. And only a parent can arrange the circumcision, so it isn't going to be happening without your consent.

sallyingforth - and lemony one. I think you misinterpreted my intent - sure, she married the man, but he came with a family. Who are perfectly entitled shoot gophers and eat coleslaw if they wish, and the new couple shouldn't be trying to get them to stop because they have chosen a different route. Bit dim to marry a man with a gopher shooting dad and then complain that his dad shoots gophers...

I think azuredress hits the nail on the head.

This will have huge implications for the grandchildren and will set the tone of their relationship with their grandparents. A loving set of grandparents who are beyond excited about the pfb are not a danger. They are to be welcomed. Just keep the coleslaw eating bit in check where it comes to personal decisions like circumsion.

I have never understood rigid insistence on 'my rules' and the planning of the ideal birth circumstances. Possibly becasue plans never come to fruition, babies are always born two weeks earlier or later when no childcare is available, you need an extra week in hospital, or the baby needs to stay in scbu for a few weeks, or something happens that means those dictated as eligible to visit have to go away, or you get home and burst into tears because you thought you wanted isolation, and you really really want a houseful of people, or you thought you wanted a houseful of people but you are overwhelmed.

It's not an exact science, and the planning that is encouraged on these threads is bizarre. If you live overseas from grandparents, guess what, they plan extended stays around births. It's not rocket science, really. It's just life. Share their excitement, not ban it.