To ignore the upstairs neighbour banging on his floor about crying baby

[MrsHende]

Baby hates getting dressed and usually screams her way through the 5-6 minute process. Twice our upstairs neighbours has banged on their floor, presumably because of the noise. Both times were after 7.30 and before 8am, once this morning and once last week, on a week day.

Who IBU?

(My mum thinks I should change the baby in a different room, possibly the best solution for everyone's blood pressure!)

Rocket... I had another look, yes the +24 Advanced Learning Loan is only for level 3 or 4 courses (A-levels or equivalent). There's also a 24+ bursary to help with fees, living costs, childcare etc.

Only Maths and English GCSE courses are free to over 24s, although some colleges offer other level 2 and 3 courses free to 19-23 year-olds if on JSA or other benefits.

Access courses (to access uni) are around £300 a year but the access loan doesn't have to be paid back if you go on to take out a degree-level student loan. Childcare grants are available with degree-level courses or higher-ed certs.

I'm surprised by how unclear and conflicting some of the info on official websites is, I can see how ppl get confused/discourged!
Apparently from summer 2015 teens can't legally leave education until age18 unless they have an apprenticeship lined up or employment/volunteering with a part time study course. Maybe that will help ppl not to slip though net?

It's definitely confusing.
I've just been looking at it, and it seems the 'not GCSEs but equivalent' level 2 and 3 courses offered are NOT accepted by some universities, so they aren't 'equivalent' at all!

I hope you see now why people were saying the 'people have no excuse as they can go to college' type comments were not really valid.

It's far more difficult than people who haven't been there assume

Maybe that will help ppl not to slip though net?

We can only hope, but I think more people turning to crime as they will not be able to claim is every bit as likely unfortunately.

'I couldn't give a shit about some jumped up arsey wall banger when my baby is crying in pain with colic'

Passmethewine... so basically you couldn't care less about waking the neighbours because their needs are not important? How selfish and arrogant.
You live in a 3-bed terrace so could easily take baby downstairs or into another room when he has colic. This is what I did with my DC when they had colic at night. I wouldn't dream of letting them scream in pain next to a shared wall for hours when people are sleeping!
I agree wall-banging is not nice but if only occasional it's probably a desperate plea for you to take baby into another room for a bit. Your baby is the centre of YOUR world not theirs! It shouldn't be their problem when he has colic/reflux.

You don't know what's going on behind that wall... the 'jumped up arsey wall banger' could have a migraine or a throbbing ear infection. They might be v.stressed with family/work problems. Their child could be ill and distressed by the noise. You and your baby don't always come first!

Rocket... yes I do see now. I had no idea courses were so difficult to access.

Lol like anyone gives a shit about the neighbour with an ear infection when they have a crying baby, honestly go and have a wine you selfish human being

And so it follows on
Lack of education opportunities = lack of job opportunities = lack of housing opportunities.
As flats with paper thin walls are cheaper than houses, it's no surprise that's where people end up.
Nothing due to laziness, just circumstances.
This has derailed a bit, but I think mutual respect is what's needed.

People should have enough respect to not make extreme unnecessary noise, but people shouldn't have to tiptoe around in their own homes either.

And banging on the wall is quite aggressive behaviour IMO.

Yes the boat, when my baby was crying in pain with colic and silent reflux my first thought was her not my neighbours.

What's your point? Maybe if they had popped round and discussed it with me I might of felt differently.

And boat I took my baby all over the house, it didn't make one bit of difference to them.

Lol at what if they had an ear infection, honestly I've had my fair share of those it didn't turn me in to a jumped up arsey wall banger.

Said neighbour was also training to be in midwifery! Hope she can cope with the crying of the countless babies she will be delivering.

Oh and they didn't have children BTW.

They were petty over every single noise made even in the day time.

Thank fuck we moved. feel sorry for the poor buggers next to them now.

Theboat... There's a huge range of issues behind it and no straight forward solution to it. It's not exclusive to poor families with a history of it either, my DP had a horrendous upbringing by a wealthy family in an affluent area but every adult around him failed him, he was homeless by 15 and out of education by 16. He had nothing and nobody, no qualifications, and relied on benefits for several years just to eat. The opportunities and support that should have been there for him weren't, it's all very well saying theres careers advisors and free college but it's pretty difficult to hold any of that down when you're sofa surfing and at least once a week you have to sleep in a fucking bus stop. This may sound extreme to you, but believe me this goes on a lot more than you might imagine.
The government has announced again today that unemployment has fallen even more but this isn't all as it seems - the job centre now sanction people for any reason they can think of and cut the benefit, so they don't count those numbers, they just report 'less people on job seekers = more people in work'. It's not necessarily accurate. The amount of people relying on food banks in this country is scary. It really baffles me how the government can claim were in economic recovery, because for a lot of the country, it doesn't really feel like we are. I don't begrudge people on benefits one bit, because a lot of the time, they have fuck all, they often had the odds stacked against them in the first place, and end up with not many opportunities practically to move themselves up in life.

Passmethewine, I get it that some neighbours can be over-reactive to noise and petty, but in my experience most tolerant noise far better if you build a rapport. It sounds like you're seeing the situation from a blinkered viewpoint rather than putting yourself in their shoes too. If she was a student midwife she was probably sleep-deprived already from long shifts with women in labour. She probably had exams, coursework, very early starts and a lot of stress to cope with. If you've been delivering babies all day I imagine the last thing you want when you get home is to be kept awake at night by a baby screaming!! I'm not saying she was right to bang on your wall, but can you see why she might have been more distressed by the noise than the average person?
To her, passing her course would have been far more important than your baby, why would she care about your family any more than you cared about her studies?

If you didn't let baby cry next to her bedroom I admit there wasn't much else you could do... other than show a bit of empathy. If she was my neighbour I would have popped round with a card and chocolates, explained my baby had colic, apologised for disturbing her so often and asked if she had any suggestions (the chocolates being a token peace-offering to catch her off-gaurd). This is not because i'm overly nice, but because I don't like neighbour hostility to escalate. It's horrible for both sides when your home becomes a battleground. If you're nice to neighbours they are much more tolerant (and I guess they feel too guilty to bang on wall when eating your chocolate, ours stopped banging after that!)

She worked away during the weeks I think to study/work.

Of course I understand how a baby crying is unpleasant. It's meant to be.

What I don't understand though is what banging on the wall achieves?

Baby doesn't exactly think oh shit I better be quiet now. Parents haven't got an off button unfortunately

Sorry but I'm not about to pop round to a neighbour that has been banging on the wall with chocolates. Maybe if she came to me I would of.

Like you say her cocoursis probably more important to her than my baby and the same goes the other way. Comforting my baby was more important than a course.

There's give and take on both sides.

I don't have a blinkered view. I just don't take kindly to people trying to sort out any issues by banging on walls. Does diddly squat to help the situation. If anything it makes it worse.

'You have to take your human neighbours (animals are another issue) with the gender, age and family structure which they have. Like it or lump it.'

I know someone mentioned it earlier in thread, but would people feel differently about noise if it was an elderly person with dementia shouting and screaming at night? (Genuine question).
Imagine your neighbours' elderly mother came to live with them so neighbour could care for her. Her bedroom backed onto yours. Imagine every night she woke you and your DH and DC several times by shouting and screaming out for help. Every time it takes your neighbour at least 30-60mins to settle her, sometimes longer. (This is v.common behaviour for people with dementia who often get scared, panicky and disorientated at night. When I worked in community team we encountered it a lot and the person often got forced into a home because neighbours kept complaining and the person caring couldn't cope).

Would you tolerate this disturbance the same as a crying baby? Would you expect neighbour to apologise and explain what was going on? Would you expect her to do anything to minimise noise?

Pretty much yes. It can't be helped.

But then I'm not one to confront over anything really. I'd just put up and shut up. They can't exactly do anything else. Just like I couldn't with my baby.

Said baby is now five and has the best night sleep out the lot of us.

theboat An explanation would be courteous - but yes, you'd have to tolerate it. It certainly is not for the neighbours to decide when it's time for residential care.

That's a slightly different situation, theboat.
The difference being a baby can't be put in a home because it cries in the night.
An elderly person may be put in a home if their children are struggling to cope with their care, because let's face it, caring for your elderly parent with dementia who is deteriorating can be a lot more difficult in many different ways than caring for your own baby.
Would I expect a parent to apologise for a crying baby(colicky or not)? No.
Would I expect a neighbour to apologise for their elderly relative with dementia? No. Simple as that.
Neighbours complaining in either situation are being slightly unfair, and banging on a wall is pathetic.

ThatCucking, yes there are some differences, but what I noticed in that job was how intolerant many neighbours were to people with dementia. In a few sad cases, neighbours put so much pressure on main-carer she gave way and agreed to a care-home (not because she couldn't cope with care needs but because neighbours kept complaining and being hostile). We would often get called in to assess whether someone was safe to be cared for at home because of neighbour concerns about noise, possible neglect.
On the other hand I can see neighbours' point of view as well, they'd say they couldn't sleep, their children were frightened by noise etc, in one case the elderly person kept hitting the shared wall with her walking-stick in night, but family didn't want to remove stick in case she got up and fell without it. It's a difficult situation for everyone.

Why was soundproofing ridiculed higher up the thread?

If it facilitates a better quality of life for neighbours of those (babies or dementia sufferers) who can't help making noise especially at night then how is it a bad thing?

I would imagine that neighbours who get a good night's sleep are likely to be more tolerant, friendly and to help the parent/carer out. I certainly would be in those circumstances.

QueenOf, I'm not sure why soundproofing was ridiculed up-thread. I guess many feel it's easier and cheaper to blame the neighbour for being 'noise-sensitive' than take responsibility for doing something positive?

IMO if noise is over a certain level the person making the noise needs to address it, regardless of whether it's deliberate noise or not. A baby screaming can reach 115dB.

I'm sure most landlords wouldn't object to tenant paying for professional soundproofing (since it adds value to property anyway). Maybe landlords need a scheme where noise level is measured, and if over a reasonable level, noisy tenant pays cost of soundproofing over time (if they can't afford it upfront). This could be added to tenancy agreements to prevent neighbour noise disputes.

When we rented (when DC1 was toddler) we used stick-on panels for walls and isosonic mats on floors. It wasn't expensive and landlord was fine with it. When we got our own place we invested in SS20 sound-insulation system for walls. I've heard of people upgrading ceilings too.

I'm with Queen and Boat. If it makes someone's life more tolerable and isn't detrimental to another then what's wrong with it????

Some people with autism are badly affected by noise and would also have difficulty with earplugs due to other sensory issues. A parent may wish to be able to hear should their own children get out of bed and a lone female may wish to be able to hear an intruder so earplugs would not be suitable for them either.

Parent of baby or carer of dementia person may be glad of friendly and well rested neighbour to provide practical assistance.

Sounds like win win to me.