To ignore the upstairs neighbour banging on his floor about crying baby

[MrsHende]

Baby hates getting dressed and usually screams her way through the 5-6 minute process. Twice our upstairs neighbours has banged on their floor, presumably because of the noise. Both times were after 7.30 and before 8am, once this morning and once last week, on a week day.

Who IBU?

(My mum thinks I should change the baby in a different room, possibly the best solution for everyone's blood pressure!)

Interesting point about people with dementia disturbing neighbours. I used to work for a community team supporting ppl with dementia in their own homes. Once neighbours start complaining about noise in night, the elderly person is usually moved into a care-home/sheltered accommodation even if they don't want to move, as most NHS trusts don't fund overnight carers.
If I had a relative with dementia who was being supported in own home (or I was living with her as a carer) of course I would care about disturbing neighbours. If she was crying out in night or shouting and neighbours knocked on wall, I'd go round the next day, apologise and explain. If she carried on disturbing them I would find her more suitable accommodation. I'd be sympathetic to both sides, but no neighbour deserves to be woken and disturbed regularly, whatever the reason!

Last summer, my neighbour's baby woke me up every morning around 4am. My reaction was to be grateful it wasn't me who had to deal him, turn over and go back to sleep. Clearly, I am mistaken. After reading this thread I now realise my life is ruined, and if it ever happens again I should express my disapproval by banging things. Oh no, actually I won't be doing that because I'm not a delicate little flower, and if the noise bothered me that much I'd buy some ear plugs.

But it's equally stupid to suggest that those who find it irritating to hear a baby crying throughout the night should live in isolated solitude.

Nor did I say that, but if someone is unable to abide everyday noises that most people across the globe experience from a neighbour at some point or another - such as babies crying - to the extend that it ruins their life, as some pp have written on here, then maybe isolated solitude is where they would be happiest.

Saskia, it's great you were able to get back to sleep as soon as neighbour's baby woke you but not everyone is so lucky! When DH and I lived in flat next door to a baby it woke us multiple times every night. The wall was so thin it sounded like it was screaming in our room. We did not feel grateful that we didn't have to get up, we felt furious towards the mother since her decision to raise a baby in such an unsuitable flat was causing us so much stress and sleep deprivation! She was rude and dismissive when confronted. Maybe the soundproofing in your flat is better than it was in ours.

ThatCucking... 'isolated solitude' should not be necessary even if people are sensitive to noise. Most neighbours are considerate and care about not disturbing others. I've lived in other small flats that were very quiet and peaceful, although had someone decided to raise a baby next door the peace of the entire building would have been shattered because sound carried a long way. Some buildings have a 'quiet hours' clause in the contract which I guess puts off people with babies, since it's impossible to stick to quiet hours with a baby, and you could be evicted for breaking the tenancy agreement.

'Quiet hours' aren't applicable to babies.
It means not to vaccum, play loud music etc between certain hours. It has nothing to do with babies.
I'm not saying 'isolated solitude' should be necessary. I think it's necessary to be reasonable, and living in flats you should expect noise from people around you. If that kind of noise 'ruins your life' you really need help, or to move.

Andrewof, re dogs, I'm not a dog-lover myself but I'm aware some ppl are more attached to their dogs than their kids, and some of my friends treat their dogs like humans. I also know people who loathe babies but love dogs (including my mil!) So in some circumstances I do think people become just as attached to a pet as others do to a child. My mil currently has 2 dogs and still gets tearful about her dead dogs decades later, she has photos of them all over her home and loves to talk about them. She openly admits she is a 'dog-person' not a 'people-person' and shows very little interest in her kids or grandchildren.

The difference is that most dog owners would not keep a puppy in a flat or expect neighbours to tolerate being woken by it. Instead they choose accommodation that is suitable before acquiring the puppy.

theboat If you think tenants with a "quiet hours" clause could be evicted because their baby cried, you are wrong. "Quiet hours" can and should mean turn off your TV and no music even if not amplified; it might mean no comings and goings except in emergency, although I doubt it; but it cannot mean no talking (and adult voices can be louder than a baby crying) and it certainly cannot mean "turn off your baby".

theboat Cross-posted. Your MIL must have been a very odd mother . . .

most dog owners would not keep a puppy in a flat or expect neighbours to tolerate being woken by it. Instead they choose accommodation that is suitable before acquiring the puppy.

I wish. You do not know my NDN (downstairs flat) who kept a dog and to hell with DW and me. We went to dinner to celebrate when Fido died and she told us that she wasn't going to get another "because there'd never be another dog like [Fido]" - the right decision for the wrong reason.

Ok I guess I was wrong about the meaning of 'quiet hours', thanks for explaining. I always thought it referred to any noise, even babies, indicating the building was unsuitable for families. I noticed it on a couple of tenancy agreements when we lived in flats, we wouldn't have dared sign a contract with quiet hours once DC1 came along.

Andrewof, I can imagine how annoying a noisy dog must be in a flat. At least she didn't replace Fido!
Yes my mil is a strange person, very cold and unloving to her sons and grandchildren but lavishes love and attention on her dogs! Her world revolves around the dogs and she talks about them as if they are people.

I believe there are certain apartments where the landlord will not accept families with children to move in, but that's not the same thing as quiet hours, and I'm not sure whether you can be evicted once you have moved in and then get pregnant. Never been in that situation so I don't know what the rules are there.

No, the LL has to take the chance of the thunder patter of tiny feet later on. As do the other tenants. And quite right too!

I'm surprised ppl think banging on wall/ceiling is rude. When we lived in a terrace our neighbours banged on wall a few times when DS was crying, but I wasn't offended. I interpreted it as them saying 'please remember we're trying to sleep on other side of this wall' or 'we can't take it anymore please do something'! I always took him into another room when he cried for more than a few mins in night. They were a nice family and we got on with them so maybe that's why I thought of wall-banging as communicating.
TBH if my neighbour had a problem with noise now I'd rather a quick bang on the wall than having them come round to speak to me (and having to open the door in my PJs!)

I agree that it would be a good idea to change your baby in another room. Your neighbour sounds like a total knob though. I have no sympathy for people who inflict their desire for total silence on everyone else.

theboatisleaking Your neighbours were being extremely rude to you! You may not have taken offence but they certainly meant it.

Kitty I'm guessing if a flat says 'no children' in the advert they could probably evict someone if they had a baby whilst there. Neighbours would probably be really annoyed by the sound of a baby crying if they're paying premium rent to avoid child noise. I've noticed a lot of these buildings tend to have high balconies, so maybe 'no children' is for safety reasons too.

I imagine that "no children" is generally because young children may damage furnishings etc and has nothing to do with noise.

Yes that's probably true, I didn't think about furnishings. But I still think many people massively underestimate how annoying their child's noise is to neighbours. I felt very sorry for our neighbours when DC were babies and toddlers. Maybe the solution is more apartment buildings/terraces that specify either 'no children' or 'family-friendly area' so ppl can choose whether they want to risk ending up with a baby/toddler next door.

Why would they massively underestimate it? People with children have usually experienced adult life without children often for several years. I didn't mind babes crying when I was childless in my 20s or early 30s because I accepted that is what babies do.

I think it depends a lot on the type of flat/house and the soundproofing. There's a big difference between distant sound of crying baby that wakes you briefly, and the shrill screams of a baby the other side of a v.thin wall that prevents you sleeping or studying.
When I pointed out on this thread how disruptive babies can be in small flats, I was astonished at the lack of empathy many posters had for their neighbours. I think it's easy to get so wrapped up in motherhood you stop thinking about neighbours' feelings. For many people without kids a baby screaming is not 'normal household noise', it's the equivalent of a very annoying car-alarm going off every few hours. Sleep-deprivation is bad enough when it's your own baby, worse if it's someone else's.

me and dh are both very intolerant to noise, i get so stressed with it i have given myself an ulcer so i can empathise with people who hate the sound of crying babies/noisy neighbours.

but, because of our intolerances we always tried to rent detached houses. if we had to live joined on we bought ear plugs for night-time and gritted our teeth in the daytime until we could move out. we always made sure we had a 6 month break clause so if it turned out our neighbours had babies, or worse, were party people!! we could get out fairly quickly.

apart from music at night we would never dream of complaining or expecting people to change their lives or apologise for how they lived. it was our issue to deal with.

we have finally bought and we bought detached, now the only noise driving us nuts is our own children

there are some utterly bonkers and delusional people on this thread.

"I can't personally stand people that complain about babies making noise."

You are fortunate then, a screaming baby causes me extreme pain. I have lost count of how many sneering looks and comments I have received for covering my ears and leaving the room/cafe/restaurant, intolerance appears to be as common as compassion - I didn't choose to have hyperacousis and there no treatment effective for me!

That should be tolerance, not intolerance.

Andro, I agree there is lack of compassion for ppl who are sensitive to noise. I don't like babies screaming in restaurants either. There are so many family-friendly eating places I think it's v.rude when people take their baby in a nice restaurant and then let it cry/scream while they eat. DH's birthday meal was ruined by a couple who ignored their screaming baby. When our DC were babies we rarely ate out in restaurants with them, if we did risk it and they cried, I'd take them out until they calmed down.

Sanquhar I'm glad you moved to detached house and solved problem of neighbour noise. But I still think neighbours have a responsibility to reduce noise as much as possible when there are shared walls. I feel sorry for people who can't afford to move (or who live alone and can't justify renting a detached house). These people have a right to a peaceful home too.